Winter testing the M4 - the great, good, bad and ugly

[M4TW]

The onslaught of winter in these parts has allowed me to try out my M4 in crappy conditions. My experiences are coloured obviously by the tires I am riding on, but they are OEM - 641's with Conti WinterContacts. Please feel free to add your experiences and thoughts.

The Great

One of the first questions that gets asked about cars and winters around here is "howz the heater?" When you're starting your car after it's been outside all night in -30 C temperatures, this can become a rather urgent question. Well I am happy to report that it's pretty stellar (or perhaps I should say 'solar').

The car reaches operating temperature quite quickly and the interior gets nice and cozy with good insulation. The heated seats and steering wheel are added bonuses, though I haven't felt the need to use them much. While I have been driving around in -20 C weather, I haven't had to do the frozen parking lot start yet (I have a heated garage) but will be reporting soon I expect.

The handling is sublime. This came as a surprise to me. I'm used to AWD 3er's when it comes to this - a 330xi and then a 335xi. The car just snaps around a corner and then wants to go straight. My AWD models, by contrast, understeered nearly as bad as a FWD.

Startlingly, getting the tail to hang out in the M4 takes a bit of effort. Once nudged out a bit sideways, however, the M4 is easy to control and you can bring back in line at will (with DSC fully off). My 335xi could be oversteered but was much harder to control and DSC fully off wasn't something to be risked.

I've really grown to appreciate the benefits of balanced handling the M4 brings to the table in slippery conditions. I am getting to know my car better as a result.

The Good

Winter braking is pretty good. Obviously having CCB's doesn't make a lick of difference, but the ABS is a rapid fire machine gun when you engage it.

The car actually trudges through snow pretty decently on the Conti's and so far I'm not finding clearance to be an issue. Naturally once the ruts deepen on side streets in early spring I am going to have to give the M4 a breather.

The ride is also pretty good in comfort notwithstanding all the road bumps and bone chilling cold.

The Bad

I'm not getting a great confident feeling driving the car on slippery roads with cross-winds. The handling might be great, but so is the sense that your feet might go out from under you. I would have to add that I am not too excited about getting a flat with delicate CCB's and a tight fit over the callipers if a tire has to be changed. Worse about not having any spare tire anyway.

The Ugly

For the love of God BMW fix MDM!!! Winter conditions really show it to be a worthless POS. It simply does not allow enough wheel spin to get going. All sorts of error codes light up when the tires can't turn at all because they are being braked and you can't move at all without spinning. The only way out is to turn DSC completely off and start off in second (efficiency mode is a good idea too for delicate throttle control).

This leads to my next finding that trying to start on ice or packed snow sucks. I nearly got stuck on a slight hill in traffic because of this. Fortunately, I was able to get going a bit by using the above method and controlling the spinning with the throttle. I've been thinking about throwing some ballast in the trunk in the form of salt bags for my pool for when summer returns. I've been reading that it might not do much with this car and may make it too tail happy.

I'll report back after I get a chance to try it.

[Lups]

We are getting snow on Saturday. I'll be sure to report my findings here then, if my tire guy finds my tires lol

[myzmak]

I think sand bags or salt bags over the rear wheels are a must for starts on ice on an RWD car. Only question in my mind is whether you need 2 bags per wheel or just 1.....either way, it needs the weight.

.....not that I have a car here yet. Or even a CA who will return friggin emails to tell me when it might arrive..............

[gthal]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I think sand bags or salt bags over the rear wheels are a must for starts on ice on an RWD car. Only question in my mind is whether you need 2 bags per wheel or just 1.....either way, it needs the weight.

.....not that I have a car here yet. Or even a CA who will return friggin emails to tell me when it might arrive..............

The Conti winter tires are also largely to blame. In my experience, the snow/ice performance of a more hard core winter tire is much better than a performance winter tire.

They are more performance oriented than poor weather... like the PA3, Sottozero, etc. A more aggressive tire (Blizzak, Nokian, etc) will give better performance in getting going in snow and ice but the sacrifice is dry performance.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by gthal

The Conti winter tires are also largely to blame. In my experience, the snow/ice performance of a more hard core winter tire is much better than a performance winter tire.

They are more performance oriented than poor weather... like the PA3, Sottozero, etc. A more aggressive tire (Blizzak, Nokian, etc) will give better performance in getting going in snow and ice but the sacrifice is dry performance.

Good point.

I struggled quite a bit over which tires to order. Went PA4 because (1) most days roads in YYC are dry or salted and wet, rarely on snow or ice (including my residential street), and (2) I don't drive to work, especially not on crappy weather days, so can keep,lucy sheltered in really bad conditions. Only times I might HAVe to venture out in awful weather is on a weekend when kids have conflicting practices or something and my wife and I are going to different places. For those few days, performance trade off for other days didn't seem worth it.

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by gthal

The Conti winter tires are also largely to blame. In my experience, the snow/ice performance of a more hard core winter tire is much better than a performance winter tire.

They are more performance oriented than poor weather... like the PA3, Sottozero, etc. A more aggressive tire (Blizzak, Nokian, etc) will give better performance in getting going in snow and ice but the sacrifice is dry performance.

I think next year Id like to try different tires, but finding ones to fit the 641's will likely limit my options.

Originally Posted by myzmak

Good point.

I struggled quite a bit over which tires to order. Went PA4 because (1) most days roads in YYC are dry or salted and wet, rarely on snow or ice (including my residential street), and (2) I don't drive to work, especially not on crappy weather days, so can keep,lucy sheltered in really bad conditions. Only times I might HAVe to venture out in awful weather is on a weekend when kids have conflicting practices or something and my wife and I are going to different places. For those few days, performance trade off for other days didn't seem worth it.

Sounds about right for the YYC, but for YXE or YQR - not so much.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by M4TW

I think next year Id like to try different tires, but finding ones to fit the 641's will likely limit my options.

Definitely! Contis are pretty crappy if I recall. Mich X3s will fit won't they? but now i'm totally guessing ...

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Sounds about right for the YYC, but for YXE or YQR - not so much.

Agreed.

this guy had Hakka's on (http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1055641) - studded, but I remember the rutted and unplowed streets of my YXE youth well enough to think that might not be the worst choice ever.

(oddly, when I search on Kaltire or the Nokian website, I have a hard time finding 275/35/19s.........which I assume is your rear size)

Tirerack also sells Pirelli Sottozero IIs, of which I was 'meh' on my 328xi (found PA2s to have way more snow/ice grip)

but, yeah, hopefully someone will come up with something.

[sunnyboy]

Originally Posted by gthal

The Conti winter tires are also largely to blame. In my experience, the snow/ice performance of a more hard core winter tire is much better than a performance winter tire.

They are more performance oriented than poor weather... like the PA3, Sottozero, etc. A more aggressive tire (Blizzak, Nokian, etc) will give better performance in getting going in snow and ice but the sacrifice is dry performance.

I have Blizzak's and we have not had any major snow/ice collected yet (finger's crossed)... and yes, dry performance is not good. The tires grips a little too hard so that the steering feels weird thus making it feels sticky and knotchy ... I am not sure if I am explaining it right, but hope you get my meaning...

[dclowd9901]

Thank you guys for reminding me why coastal California is so great. Be safe!

[SuspectisHatless]

I have the 640's on with a short drive in the snow yesterday and they worked fine. My biggest concern is getting up the hill on the street that is near my house. It doesn't get plowed until nearly everything else is done and its not uncommon to see a rear wheel cars struggling to get up it. Even the plows have a tough time if its icy. Well the M3 climbed it fine yesterday, although there wasn't any ice (just 2" of snow). Also I tested the brakes a number of times on snow covered streets and I had no problem stopping, even when declining. Of course I wasn't driving that fast.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Thank you guys for reminding me why coastal California is so great. Be safe!

You are missing out man!

[darmstadt]

Many thanks for that, I was waiting for such a report. I have the same winter wheels and tyres setup on my F80 as that is all thats currently available here. Hopefully we won't have too much snow but I have a 300km commute to work each work through a hilly twisty landscape where it does snow quite heavily and a couple of years ago I was having great fun in the Alpina (a few brown trouser moments!) It looks like the M3 might be a tad better

[jbtco]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Thank you guys for reminding me why coastal California is so great. Be safe!

What tyres are best for an earthquake ?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jbtco

What tyres are best for an earthquake ?

Having moved to SF from MN people make fun of my wife and I for always checking the weather ... we still haven't gotten out of the habit. My stock answer is, "you don't understand, where I'm from you can die ... like actually be killed. Daily."

Hit by lightening, killed by tornado, freeze to death, be killed in a winter car wreck, floods. Not to mention the plagues of army worms, may flies, horse flies and the state bird - the mosquito. West nile.

Personally our house was struck by lightening twice, one time it entered the electrical wiring and our fireplace - the EMP blew out every electronic device in our house: microwaves, ovens, stove, refrige, irrigation, and of course all TVs, computers etc. Our first house had the basement flooded.

Anyway, I haven't felt a single earthquake yet. Maybe it's being stored up but I"ll take it over the alternative.

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by jbtco

What tyres are best for an earthquake ?

I'll take a once-in-60-or-so-years event over seasonal catastrophe any day of the week. Anything less than magnitude 4 won't even wake us up.

[Falafel Combo]

Excellent report. Thanks.

[V1.47fan]

Any drifting on fresh snow covered roads with TC off ?

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Any drifting on fresh snow covered roads with TC off ?

Super easy and a great way to learn this car's handling characteristics at low speeds. As I mentioned in my post, it actually takes more nudging than you would think and it's easy to control. MDM stupidly only allows a tiny amount of drift, making it useless as a driver's aid. My 335xi's DTC allowed almost 45degrees before intervening and just before you would spin out anyway if you had it all the way off. MDM allows about 10. Where is the ///M in that?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Super easy and a great way to learn this car's handling characteristics at low speeds. As I mentioned in my post, it actually takes more nudging than you would think and it's easy to control. MDM stupidly only allows a tiny amount of drift, making it useless as a driver's aid. My 335xi's DTC allowed almost 45degrees before intervening and just before you would spin out anyway if you had it all the way off. MDM allows about 10. Where is the ///M in that?

It was the same with my E92. Until I got Euro MDM coded. I could sometimes barely believe the crazy angles Euro MDM would let me get away with before kicking in .

Hopefully someone will soon figure out how to code Euro MDM in the F8X

[minn19]

I just picked up my car today and drove about 100 miles before I went home. Lucky for me it was a mix of everything today; snowing, sleating, wet cold roads and little bit of freezing rain mixed in today. I have a square setup of 245/45 R18 XIce 3s. I have to say I was very impressed with them as they gave great traction and when the rear did kick out it was easy controllable and brought back in to line.

I've had xDrive on my last cars and was a little bit nervous about going back to RWD, but this short drive home was a nice little confidence booster. I do have many many miles driven in winter on A/S RWD vehicles so I guess I wasn't that worried. I just never had my kid in those cars so it is a little different this time around. Any way, when I get more miles/experience on this setup I will report back if there are any changes. Great thread, I appreciated the insights before I picked up my car.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It was the same with my E92. Until I got Euro MDM coded. I could sometimes barely believe the crazy angles Euro MDM would let me get away with before kicking in .

Hopefully someone will soon figure out how to code Euro MDM in the F8X

Have we now established that (once again) there is a different MDM programming on F80? (I thought this time it was supposed to be the same....? but I was away for a bit so could easily have missed something...in fact, my wife says I miss quite a bit but that is another story....)