Downshifting 6MT into first?

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Soooo when i was learning to drive a manual i was taught to never put it in first gear while the car is still rolling. For over 10 yrs i followed that, so first gear only at stop (well sometimes maybe 2-3mph roll). The other day i noticed (as i was pulling up to the stop sign at 5mph) that the rev match went up as i tried to put it in first. So is it safe to put the car in first while rolling (more than crawl speed)?

[NorCal f80]

I'm the same as you, was taught to never downshift into first while the car was still moving and I preached that to others. However, with my DCT I love the sound when I downshift to first at like 8mph.

[YMB_F80]

Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick

I'm the same as you, was taught to never downshift into first while the car was still moving and I preached that to others. However, with my DCT I love the sound when I downshift to first at like 8mph.

HAHA!! I'm right there with you! It sounds sooo good when you have catless downpipes, it gets addicting haha

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick

I'm the same as you, was taught to never downshift into first while the car was still moving and I preached that to others. However, with my DCT I love the sound when I downshift to first at like 8mph.

Love that! In sports+ it sounds downright rude!

[vampire81]

10 years with manual cars. I almost always use 1st gear at very low speeds, road bumps, etc. I just like to keep the revs higher so the engine is more comfortable in "rotating the selected gear". that is with 4&6 cylinder NA engines. a turbo charged engine (or a V8) have no problem due to the higher torque. but in my DCT 135i I downshift to 1st just to listen to the rev match and burble ' '

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by kotik

Soooo when i was learning to drive a manual i was taught to never put it in first gear while the car is still rolling. For over 10 yrs i followed that, so first gear only at stop (well sometimes maybe 2-3mph roll). The other day i noticed (as i was pulling up to the stop sign at 5mph) that the rev match went up as i tried to put it in first. So is it safe to put the car in first while rolling (more than crawl speed)?

Yes it is safe to put the transmission into first gear at any speed that will not cause it to over rev the engine. First gear is not mechanically special in any way. It is physically equivalent to any other gear in the transmission, it just has the fewest amount of teeth (on the input shaft side - greatest amount on the output shaft side). Other than that difference, it has the same linkage, fork, synchos, and dog gears as any other gear in the transmission.

The reason that people are taught to avoid first gear at speed is that, if you do not properly rev match, it will cause the tires to lock and lose traction as they try to bring the engine up to the necessary RPM to match their current RPM. The same could apply to second gear (and any gear sufficiently low enough depending on your current speed) too technically, but first gear is more likely to produce the effect given that it will max out at somewhere around 40mph.

[NorCal f80]

Originally Posted by Victorwu120

HAHA!! I'm right there with you! It sounds sooo good when you have catless downpipes, it gets addicting haha

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Love that! In sports+ it sounds downright rude!

Shit, now I'm going off topic but why is it sometimes downshifting [let's say to 2nd gear] is louder than other times?

[Kidscollege$]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yes it is safe to put the transmission into first gear at any speed that will not cause it to over rev the engine. First gear is not mechanically special in any way. It is physically equivalent to any other gear in the transmission, it just has the fewest amount of teeth (on the input shaft side - greatest amount on the output shaft side). Other than that difference, it has the same linkage, fork, synchos, and dog gears as any other gear in the transmission.

The reason that people are taught to avoid first gear at speed is that, if you do not properly rev match, it will cause the tires to lock and lose traction as they try to bring the engine up to the necessary RPM to match their current RPM. The same could apply to second gear (and any gear sufficiently low enough depending on your current speed) too technically, but first gear is more likely to produce the effect given that it will max out at somewhere around 40mph.

I was taught the same...but I wonder now, if it was me being taught by the old man who always had cars that did not have a synchronized transmissions? Meaning you had to be at a complete stop before putting it into 1st gear. Hence you could never down shift to 1st while moving or you would grind the gears.

[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by 0-100 real quick

Shit, now I'm going off topic but why is it sometimes downshifting [let's say to 2nd gear] is louder than other times?

I second this.

Shifting to second when at 2k in 3rd almost always gives a nice blip. Except when you really want to hear it.

[Accel Junky]

I was taught the same but I do it when the speed is going to bog 2nd. Have done it on many cars and never encountered a problem. I don't think there is any reason in modern cars against doing it.

[3er]

Originally Posted by Accel Junky

I was taught the same but I do it when the speed is going to bog 2nd. Have done it on many cars and never encountered a problem. I don't think there is any reason in modern cars against doing it.

+1, this is the situation where I'd see needing to go to first without coming to a complete stop (e.g., yield sign).

[harkes]

Funny how driving is being taught differently. This rule is definitely not being taught in Denmark, but we also don't have burbling V8's to easily pull a 2nd gear no matter the situation.

[csczero]

I notice I can't downshift into 1st gear. I've read that you should never downshift into first unless you're at a complete stop. I understand that but I should be able to at-least put the lever into the gate though, right? When I'm rolling at 10mph and I want to downshift into 1st, I can't. It feels like something is blocking the gate and I can't put the lever in. It doesn't go in, until I hit about 5 mph.

[clutchdj]

the 1-2 sychro is not designed to allow you to go from second to first unless you are about to stall while moving in second gear. The only way to shift from second to first would be to heel-toe into the gear. You should almost never need to do that unless you are a perfectionist or just in a pinch and/or REALLY need to get out of a hole. Your foot speed should be almost equivalent to your hand shift speed in order to keep things smooth.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

i throw that bitch in 1st at 20mph all the time.

[seis-speed]

I never downshift to first unless worrying about stalling out.

[csczero]

the 1-2 sychro is not designed to allow you to go from second to first unless you are about to stall while moving in second gear. The only way to shift from second to first would be to heel-toe into the gear. You should almost never need to do that unless you are a perfectionist or just in a pinch and/or REALLY need to get out of a hole. Your foot speed should be almost equivalent to your hand shift speed in order to keep things smooth.

Thanks for the advice! It just sometimes I would be rolling around a parking lot at 10mph and I want to downshift into 1st to be able to go even slower if needed, but I can't cuz of the gate issue. Or like If I'm approaching a stop sign, and I'm about 10mph but I want to throw it into 1st so that I can take off as soon as I stop. I don't know if this is correct technique. I've tried "double-clutching" and even rev matching to pop into 1st, no luck.

i throw that bitch in 1st at 20mph all the time.

Throwing the shifter into 1st at 20mph, as in downshift? It doesn't even allow me to enter the gate of 1st unless I'm below 5mph.

I never downshift to first unless worrying about stalling out.

When does the car actually stall out in second? I can leave it in 2nd and the car can roll at idle about 7-8mph. I assuming if you encounter a hill then its a possibility? But how can I shift to 1st if it feels like something blocking it? Or will the car let me if It feels like stalling? I'm not too worry about the jerk from shifting, but rather the ability to enter 2nd gear gate from 1st on upshift. It seems like I'm getting blocked.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by csczero

I don't know if this is correct technique. I've tried "double-clutching" and even rev matching to pop into 1st, no luck.

Surprised to hear this because that has been the ticket for me with my past 6MT BMWs. I downshift into first gear all the time so this would definitely annoy me. Hopefully someone can explain how to work through your issue.

[gatorfast]

I only use 1st for starting from a stop. Easy to slip the clutch slightly in 2nd if at a slow roll and get moving that way.

[boss2k]

You can downshift to 1st below 10mph with no issues, normally i do below 7 mph.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by harkes

Funny how driving is being taught differently. This rule is definitely not being taught in Denmark, but we also don't have burbling V8's to easily pull a 2nd gear no matter the situation.

That's cause the biggest motor in Denmark has 160 HP and costs $150,000.

[rr006rbc]

I do it just to wake up the homeless sleeping at the bus stops, approaching people walking in the crosswalks and driving up to a car already waiting at the stoplight who has their windows down. Basically I'm just your basic M3 asshole.

I don't think it's bad as long as you let the engine auto blip the rev match first and you're not in Sport+ mode just slipping the clutch.