Your thoughts on the future of M3 vs. M4 performance

[LDSM]

With the Fxx generation, both the M3/M4 are equal performers and the standard 3 and 4 pretty equal also.

Since this is only the first generation of the coupe splitting away, they can start focusing on the 4 series chassis and developing it without having to worry about any limitations having to develop both a 4 door and 2 door. As time goes on, the performance difference between the 3 and 4 might start to grow, for example the next generation 4 series might inherently be a better handling car, or weigh less, and as a result, M3 and M4 differences in performance will carry over

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think BMW should always strive to keep the M3/M4 the close twins that they are now, or should they be allowed to push the M4 as far as it can go, even at the expense of leaving the M3 behind?

[CanAutM3]

I think the 3 / 4 nomenclature is marketing fluff. The two models will more than likely always be built on the same platform and use the same engines. So we will see very little disparity between them. The 4er might be tuned slightly on the sportier side, but noting significantly meaningful IMO.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Devin.RS

With the Fxx generation, both the M3/M4 are equal performers and the standard 3 and 4 pretty equal also.

Since this is only the first generation of the coupe splitting away, they can start focusing on the 4 series chassis and developing it without having to worry about any limitations having to develop both a 4 door and 2 door. As time goes on, the performance difference between the 3 and 4 might start to grow, for example the next generation 4 series might inherently be a better handling car, or weigh less, and as a result, M3 and M4 differences in performance will carry over

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think BMW should always strive to keep the M3/M4 the close twins that they are now, or should they be allowed to push the M4 as far as it can go, even at the expense of leaving the M3 behind?

No.

[nicknaz]

Based on the past, the two cars will be similar by design.

Example in the e36 days the coupes were ballasted to keep the weight and distribution similar between sedan and coupe.

[gearboxtrouble]

I doubt it. There's no meaningful difference between the M5 and the M6 despite both being separate models for longer than the 3 and 4. The 4 will be slightly lighter and will likely get the GTS/CSL variants (which will be much faster) but the standard M3/4 will be pretty much identical under the skin.

[JoeFromPA]

Historically, there's been more differentiation in their performance. The e90 m3 was notably heavier than the e92 m3, the chassis flex in the e36 m3 sedan was more than the e36 m3 coupe, etc.

I'm blown away by how much BMW achieved in balancing the f80/f82 in terms of weight and driving dynamics. They obviously invested in keeping the performance on par, rather than trying to differentiate them. I always thought that was a particular blow to those shelling out thousands extra for a coupe

[Wah]

If anything, they will combine more cars into a single platform... I believe that is the goal to reduce developments costs.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Historically, there's been more differentiation in their performance. The e90 m3 was notably heavier than the e92 m3

I'm blown away by how much BMW achieved in balancing the f80/f82 in terms of weight and driving dynamics. They obviously invested in keeping the performance on par, rather than trying to differentiate them. I always thought that was a particular blow to those shelling out thousands extra for a coupe

The weight difference between F80 M3 and F82 M4 is almost the same as it is between the E90 and E92 M3: ~50lbs.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think the 3 / 4 nomenclature is marketing fluff. The two models will more than likely always be built on the same platform and use the same engines. So we will see very little disparity between them. The 4er might be tuned slightly on the sportier side, but noting significantly meaningful IMO.

Same, can't see bespoke development for the cost that would involved, platform same, coupe slightly more tweaked.

What would be controversial would be differing tuning in the engine. Eg.

Saloon @ 420HP
Coupe @ 440HP

Never going to happen, but makes a little further choice!

[adc]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Historically, there's been more differentiation in their performance. The e90 m3 was notably heavier than the e92 m3, the chassis flex in the e36 m3 sedan was more than the e36 m3 coupe, etc

The way I remember it was quite the opposite with the E36. Many racing teams preferred the sedans because of the stiffer body, and then they welded the rear doors for even more stiffness. I used to have an E36 coupe, and never thought the sedan was the poor relation in terms of performance or handling.

Heck, many racing teams go to the sedans even today if that tells you anything. Just look at the continental series or Tudor or whatever they call it nowadays...

And to answer someone else's statement, BMW has never added ballast to one of their production cars, certainly not to the E36 in a misguided attempt to equalize performance between coupe and sedan.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by adc

And to answer someone else's statement, BMW has never added ballast to one of their production cars, certainly not to the E36 in a misguided attempt to equalize performance between coupe and sedan.

I could definitely be mistaken. An E36 M3 coupe owning friend told me that the "Vader" seats were purposely made heavier to equalize weight between coupe and sedan. Maybe that was a completely false statement

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

the chassis flex in the e36 m3 sedan was more than the e36 m3 coupe, etc.

The E36 sedan has the stiffer chassis and is regularly favored by race teams as their applied platform over the coupe.

[scheneider]

Short answer, no

[mkoesel]

I would look at the M5 and M6 for the most likely answer here. That is to say, differences are likely to be constrained to aesthetics and in MSRP while performance will remain effectively the same.

There are some rumors about the next M6 diverging, but it's farfetched at best right now. We'll see if anything happens there that could be carried over later to the M4 ethos.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Historically, there's been more differentiation in their performance. The e90 m3 was notably heavier than the e92 m3, the chassis flex in the e36 m3 sedan was more than the e36 m3 coupe, etc.

I'm blown away by how much BMW achieved in balancing the f80/f82 in terms of weight and driving dynamics. They obviously invested in keeping the performance on par, rather than trying to differentiate them. I always thought that was a particular blow to those shelling out thousands extra for a coupe

Sorry, but I believe the weight difference was under 40 lbs between e90 and e92. More importantly when I bought my 1M and visited ///M in Garching the discussion with the M folk turned to M3. They told me that the sedan was the better handling car than the 2 door. This did not come from se guy on the forum or even magazine, this was direct from head of M Marketing in Germany. So the coupe is not always better and weight, while a big factor also matters where it's located.

Recently, I read a review that they found a slight handling edge in the M4 over the M3 but this was not from Ms people who do their own testing but still interesting. I think it will really come down to which sells more thereby getting most development time but they will always be close. Personally, there is a huge benefit of having 4 doors that towers over very slight cosmetic and/or handling traits.