M5 vs RS6 vs X5M

[Phatcat]

Hi guys, as I mentioned a little in another thread, I will get rid of my E70 X5M towards the end of the year and pick a new car. Right now I am deciding between the new X5M, M5, or the RS6 (two seaters are not under consideration).

I almost never ask for people's opinion for the things I want to buy because I usually know exactly what I want, but for this purchase I would like to hear more pros and cons.

RS6
300K for a full spec. one in Taiwan, the most expensive of the three. This is due to the fact that Audi has a few exterior options that the BMW doesn't have. RS6 is a wagon with AWD, so from practicality point of view, it's a no brainer (excluding the X5M but that car is slower). And unless I do a lot of high speed freeway driving, the RS6 will be the quicker car for all intents and proposes.

Audi is also easier to MOD, and I love the Nardo grey. However, there's likely a "plus" model that will come out later, the worst thing I want to hear after I spend 300k is that there's a better one out there. Sure, I could MOD, but it's not the same. I am sure many feels the same way, that's why we see a lot of people ditching their leases when the M5 CP came out and upgraded to the new one. But I don't have that choice in TW (unless I want to take a big hit), I will be stuck with the "lesser" RS6.

- 6 months lead for ordering


M5
280k USD full spec., so it is slightly cheaper. RWD sedan meant more fun, but also less practical than the RS6 or the X5M. The current version is also probably the last power upgraded F10 we will see, and the new one according to what I read, will be using the same engine (probably same HP rating as the 30 years anniversary at 600) along with AWD to compete with RS6 and E63S. I suppose the M5 is more future proof.....

- 2 months lead for ordering

X5M
about 250K USD, but it's the slowest here and I have the E70 X5M. So I will be essentially driving a faster version of the same car, boring......I only put it here because of the 50K savings.

- 3 months lead for ordering

My wife prefer I just upgrade to the new X5M, she likes the higher view and easier access to baby seats. She has no feelings for the M5 but does not like the RS6, saying it looks like a boy racer with those wider fenders, FYI.

With a baby coming, I will be stuck with this big purchase for a while (5 years +), so, what do you guys think?

[gmfive]

That's a hard choice but given your parameters and planned length of ownership, I would personally lean towards either the X5M or even the Cayenne Turbo/GTS since you already drive the X5M. Those seem to be good practical long term options with space/comfort and performance when so desired. Also, a little easier to maintain with kiddos when compared to the M5 or the RS6/7. Just my two cents! And congratulations on the new baby!

[IshR]

Why do you need awd in Taiwan?
RS6 is not quicker then the m5 for all intent and purposes, only quicker off the line.

[MCarsFan]

Stay with the new X5M ! If you want to remap the ECUs that's now an option too!

[IshR]

I've never quite understood the purpose of SUVs like the X5 in the city. Sure they maybe an idea if you live on a farm and drive off road regularly.

X5M is even more confusing to me. Why so much power in a huge 4x4 which sits so high above the road? I would always be scared of the damn thing flipping over should I turn too aggressively at speed.

I think it's more of a status symbol more then anything - 'look at me I have a big fat powerful car and I'm higher then you'

[wrsbmw]

How much is a Cayenne TTS over there? It's better than all your choices listed. You might look into that. It's the best looking of them too.

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

How much is a Cayenne TTS over there? It's better than all your choices listed. You might look into that. It's the best looking of them too.

your so loved cayenne will be dated in next 2 years or so and x5m will be "new" for a lot longer

[Dionysus]

I'll bite as a former X5 owner

Originally Posted by IshR

I've never quite understood the purpose of SUVs like the X5 in the city. Sure they maybe an idea if you live on a farm and drive off road regularly.

Surely if you live on a farm, a LR Defender or similar would be more suitable? X5 is more a an on-road vehicle that can go off road within it's limitations. It doesn't exactly have a 'hose down' interior.

I avoided driving mine in built up areas (too big a footprint), however, the same is/was true of the F10/E60.

Originally Posted by IshR

X5M is even more confusing to me. Why so much power in a huge 4x4 which sits so high above the road. I would always be scared of the damn thing flipping over should I turn too aggressively at speed.

I owned a E70 35d for a few years (286 hp version). I also owned a F10 535d (313 hp version). Although not comparing apples with apples, the X5 lacked engine refinement and as a result was slow off the line in normal driving. An F30 320d could leave it behind with ease. The 535d had a perfect engine for a car of it's size/weight, with, IMO, a terrible chassis; the E70 X5 was the better drivers car of the two!

The feeling of inertia was one of the reasons I didn't replace it with another diesel X5. So, for me at least, there are other reasons why a high power petrol X5 would be desirable - to make it effortless. Not everyone buys powerful cars to drive them at 10/10s, especially on public roads.

Originally Posted by IshR

I think it's more of a status symbol more then anything - 'look at me I have a big fat powerful car and I'm higher then you'

I don't disagree that some people buy these cars for the reason you state, although there are far bigger cars available in markets other than UK. When I bought mine, someone even commented that I bought it to 'run other drivers off the road'!

The actual reason I bought mine was that it's (a) a comparative bargain compared to a 5 series (beefier components, etc.), but similar price (b) the higher driving position allows you to react to incidents much further ahead and drive defensively, (c) it's a practical car, and (d) in the UK the depreciation is low (mine depreciated less in 3.5 yrs than the M5 did in 1 yr).

In the UK, the truth is that ~10% of other drivers take exception of the X5 and show their feelings. There were too many occasions when I was cut up, not given way on slip roads, overtaken by other cars who passed by with their cars partially within my lane, etc. On one occasion I was even forced on to the hard shoulder. All of our other 'normal' cars, M5 included, are by comparison, ignored.

This attitude by a select few was the main reason that prevented me from buying another X5 in the UK. It remains, however, one of the few cars I miss.

OP - unless you have another car to carry everything that comes with a baby, I would choose F85, (RS6 Avant - 2nd, F10 last) - the early reviews would suggest that it's a much better drive than the previous gen, the tech is better (latest idrive, HUD, etc.) &, IMO, the interior is an upgrade on the E70 and the F10: -

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...mw-x5-m-review

I would also consider Cayenne as suggested above.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by IshR

Why do you need awd in Taiwan?
RS6 is not quicker then the m5 for all intent and purposes, only quicker off the line.

Thanks gmfive.

Well, Taiwan rains a lot so AWD does make a difference. And the car will be used in the city most of the time, so there are more opportunities for accelerating from a stop/low speed than from 90mph.

I will probably need to decide by June, if I want the RS6, but can wait a little longer for M5 or the X5M because of the shorter lead time. Anyways, I welcome some more inputs and will definitely let the forum know what I have decided!

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by mstmng

your so loved cayenne will be dated in next 2 years or so and x5m will be "new" for a lot longer

You mean because they will change a few lines in the body style? Yeah they already did that to the X5 and I didn't like what they did. However, I owned two X5's and the one we traded for the Cayenne was the better one. It was a 2013 5.0 with the 445hp option, premium leather, premium sound and moonroof. It had 22k on it and no problems so it was probably the best of all the BMWs I owned. It also had a very nice exhaust note which I didn't expect, it was actually as good or better than the M5. I also had a 2011 X5 3.5i that we traded with 47k and it gave us a lot of grief. Having now put 14,500 miles on the Cayenne in only 9 months, I can say without doubt it's the better platform. I don't think "new" is the best reason to buy the car. Heck I got my first BMW which was the E60 535i new in Mar 2010 and they came out with the F10 two months later. I really liked the E60 body style but I traded for the F10 M5 three years later. I didn't mind driving around in an "old" car for three years because they took 15% off the list price when I bought it.

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

You mean because they will change a few lines in the body style? Yeah they already did that to the X5 and I didn't like what they did. However, I owned two X5's and the one we traded for the Cayenne was the better one. It was a 2013 5.0 with the 445hp option, premium leather, premium sound and moonroof. It had 22k on it and no problems so it was probably the best of all the BMWs I owned. I also had a 2011 X5 3.5i that we traded with 47k and it gave us a lot of grief. Having now put 14,500 miles on the Cayenne in only 9 months, I can say without doubt it's the better platform. I don't think "new" is the best reason to buy the car. Heck I got my first BMW which was the E60 535i new in Mar 2010 and they came out with the F10 two months later. I really liked the E60 body style but I traded for the F10 M5 three years later. I didn't mind driving around in an "old" car for three years because they took 15% off the list price when I bought it.

to each his own and beauty is in the eyes of beholder

[Blackraven]

BMW Taiwan does not offer Carbon Ceramic Brakes (2NK)???

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

How much is a Cayenne TTS over there? It's better than all your choices listed. You might look into that. It's the best looking of them too.

I'm not so sure performance wise. In the first event of the One lap of America this week the new bone stock X6M is in 12th place overall (including heavily modded GTR's Z06's etc. )out of almost 40 cars ! It destroyed a Cayenne S that was in the competition on track by over 30 seconds on 3 laps at Mid america lol . Now this next fact is driver related (BMW performance center drivers are running it) but it beat the new Z06 as well lol. I was very surprised...
The new X's are no joke.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/event...110&eventId=35

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

I'm not so sure performance wise. In the first event of the One lap of America this week the new bone stock X6M is in 12th place overall (including heavily modded GTR's Z06's etc. )out of almost 40 cars ! It destroyed a modded Cayenne S that was in the competition on track by over 30 seconds on 3 laps at Mid america lol . Now this next fact is driver related (BMW performance center drivers are running it) but it beat the new Z06 as well lol. I was very surprised...
The new X's are no joke.

http://www.onelapofamerica.com/event...110&eventId=35

The Cayenne TTS has 170 more hp than the Cayenne S.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

BMW Taiwan does not offer Carbon Ceramic Brakes (2NK)???

Yes, there's ceramic brake, M5's 280K USD includes the carbon brake, so does the 300k RS6 with dynamic package plus.

And to answer wrsbmw, Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is actually competitive price wise in Taiwan, also around 300K for a semi-full spec. (350k if I pick every options available).

RS6 and M5 are the same price if I do not pick any options (about 230k), Turbo S is slightly more at 240k, and X5M is about 210k. Some of my friends suggested I should just buy standard versions and not pick any options, because besides the cars double the price of the US, options are also doubled in price (competition package is a 660,000 NTD ~ $22k USD option), they think it's an absolutely ripoff. And you cannot negotiate the price for the options, it has to be paid in full when you order the car.

But what can I say, I would love to live in Cali but I can't.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

The Cayenne TTS has 170 more hp than the Cayenne S.

On a racetrack track that doesn't make up for 30 seconds of ass whooping .

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

On a racetrack track that doesn't make up for 30 seconds of ass whooping .

Depends on the track. The guys on Top Gear raced a AMG Wagon, some crazy 1000hp minivan and a Cayenne Turbo S against the Z06 on an oval in Colorado. The Turbo S only finished one second slower than the Z06 IIRC. Anyway, it was some goofy competition between the three other cars and the Turbo S won.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by wrsbmw

Depends on the track. The guys on Top Gear raced a AMG Wagon, some crazy 1000hp minivan and a Cayenne Turbo S against the Z06 on an oval in Colorado. The Turbo S only finished one second slower than the Z06 IIRC. Anyway, it was some goofy competition between the three other cars and the Turbo S won.

Well today at another road course it came in 3rd out of the 50 entry's... Including beating heavily tuned GTR's
I'm confident it performs better than the Porsche Cayenne turbo S . It's beating prepped track cars with the BMW performance drivers

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Well today at another road course it came in 3rd out of the 50 entry's... Including beating heavily tuned GTR's
I'm confident it performs better than the Porsche Cayenne turbo S . It's beating prepped track cars with the BMW performance drivers

It's also more of a crossover than SUV though. It doesn't have the room of the X5 or the Cayenne. I think it would handle better than the SUV so of course it has the edge there but not in carrying capacity. I think the Cayenne Turbo S has the best luxury appointments of all the choices. The X6M is more like the Macan Turbo but has more HP.