C7 Z06 crashes into something.

[URBAN LEGEND]

[URBAN LEGEND]

Thoughts, comments, concerns, feelings?

Stuff happens. <----------

[M6-Coupe]

Gear shifting (1-2) and losing the control....
We have all experienced the DSC blinking while gear shifting near the red-line, because of huge amount of torque transferred to the rear wheels.
Feel sorry for this guy and thanks to BMW for amazing traction control of these torque monsters (M5/M6)... I have always mentioned despite the better power to weight ratio of American's muscle cars (Hellcat, Z06,...) compare to M5/M6, the traction issue doesn't let them take the perfect advantage of their power/torque, but things happens very fast with no enough time to react properly...

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Gear shifting (1-2) and losing the control....
We have all experienced the DSC blinking while gear shifting near the red-line, because of huge amount of torque transferred to the rear wheels.
Feel sorry for this guy and thanks to BMW for amazing traction control of these torque monsters (M5/M6)... I have always mentioned despite the better power to weight ratio of American's muscle cars (Hellcat, Z06,...) compare to M5/M6, the traction issue doesn't let them take the perfect advantage of their power/torque, but things happens very fast with no enough time to react properly...

Looks like cold tires ...... Driving a fast cars in more than just flooring the gas. Terrible.

[RPiM5]

Dayummmmmmm!!!

That sux!!

Feel sorry for the poor guy.

My thoughts are that the guy who posted the video is an idiot unless they've got the whole insurance thing sorted out already.

Beautiful car, what a shame.

[Schnell_1]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

thanks to BMW for amazing traction control of these torque monsters (M5/M6)...

But that amazing traction control wouldn't be available during launch control, which is what happened here. I've gone 45* sideways during launch many times with the F13. Which is why if I do use the novelty LC feature, I ensure that I'm in a parking lot or wider road so I can recover.

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Looks like cold tires ...... Driving a fast cars in more than just flooring the gas. Terrible.

My thoughts exactly. On cold tires it's possible to go sideways even with traction stabilities on.

[URBAN LEGEND]

I really don't trust Chevy's electronics. My ZL1 will snap on you in a hurry. MDM, I trust all day.

The only electronics package that I've used was on the 11-15 Kawasaki ZX10r. You can go WOT at or before the apex and the bike just goes seamlessly. You hear the machine gun fire as the system works it magic. Without the machine gun fire you wouldn't know it's working.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by Schnell_1

But that amazing traction control wouldn't be available during launch control, which is what happened here. I've gone 45* sideways during launch many times with the F13.

Why is that? Why don't the engineers program the electronics back in after takeoff?

[URBAN LEGEND]

First camera guy said, "oh."

[Schnell_1]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Why is that? Why don't the engineers program the electronics back in after takeoff?

Good question, I cannot say definitively. All I know is that all traction controls must be disabled to evoke LC, and when I launch it will sometimes (not all the time, sometimes I get perfect launches) fishtail all the way to 60-70 mph. If there are still behind-the-scenese nannies (like McLaren) occurring to keep the car on the road that is news to me. Doesn't feel like it...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Schnell_1

But that amazing traction control wouldn't be available during launch control, which is what happened here. I've gone 45* sideways during launch many times with the F13.

Did you know even in Launch Control with DSC OFF the Active M Differential is still functional and ECU is controlling the LSD? The key with LC is to react (by playing with steering wheel) before car goes sideway... Give it a try and see how it works...
a little turn right at LC helps a lot to have a perfect launch

The Active M Differential

[Schnell_1]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Did you know even in Launch Control with DSC OFF the Active M Differential is still functional and ECU is controlling the LSD? The key with LC is to react (by playing with steering wheel) before car goes to sideways... Give it a try and see how it works...
a little turn right at LC helps a lot to have a perfect launch

The Active M Differential

I didn't see where it said that the active differential is still intervening with DSC off. It said that it adjusts torque based on DSC inputs, but if DSC is off, then there wouldn't be any/many inputs. Not arguing, I don't have the energy to do that - just wondering how much ECU intervening there is with DSC off.

"An Electronic Control Unit (ECU) controls the clutch torque by adjusting the amount of current based on available vehicle inputs (DSC) and a custom control algorithm"

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Why is that? Why don't the engineers program the electronics back in after takeoff?

Originally Posted by Schnell_1

Good question, I cannot say definitively. All I know is that all traction controls must be disabled to evoke LC, and when I launch it will sometimes (not all the time, sometimes I get perfect launches) fishtail all the way to 60-70 mph. If there are still behind-the-scenese nannies (like McLaren) occurring to keep the car on the road that is news to me. Doesn't feel like it...

That's simple. The laws of physics
A really perfect launch with that much power and torque needs the true weight distribution. In case of McLaren the mid mounted engine helps to transfer more weight to rear wheels at launce with ~42/58 weight distribution (front/rear). Porsche 991TTS is at the same boat but even more backward weight distribution (39/61) because of rear mounted engine + AWD. GTR has front weight distribution (55/45), but that amazing AWD helps the perfect launch. In case of M5/M6 the weight distribution is 52/48 and there is no AWD engaged to correct the traction. Meanwhile non of those cars transfers that much torque to rear wheel, because they don't need to do (since they are light). M5/M6 are heavy and need more torque to take off quickly and that's why S63TU generates over 550 lb-ft torque and then DCT provides 4.81 gear ratio (at first gear) along with 3.15 axle ratio to transfer over 8000 lb-ft torque to rear wheels at launch... Audi RS7 is very similar to M5/M6 (as far as weight and torque) and still front weight but is AWD so can launch much better than M5/M6 but not as good as GTR or 991TTS or Mac because of heavy weight...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Schnell_1

I didn't see where it said that the active differential is still intervening with DSC off. It said that it adjusts torque based on DSC inputs, but if DSC is off, then there wouldn't be any/many inputs. Not arguing, I don't have the energy to do that - just wondering how much ECU intervening there is with DSC off.

"An Electronic Control Unit (ECU) controls the clutch torque by adjusting the amount of current based on available vehicle inputs (DSC) and a custom control algorithm"

Active M Differential.

The Active M Differential in the new M5 and M6 is an electronically controlled multi-plate limited-slip differential programmed to optimize traction, stability and sporting character.

The rear axle’s multi-plate limited-slip differential works with high precision and speed. Its control unit is connected with the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system via FlexRay high-speed data transfer technology and constantly cross-checks the data collected by its sensors with the feedback from DSC. It then uses this information to calculate the locking force required to deliver optimum traction and stability. The data recorded by DSC sensors is also passed on if the stability control system is switched off. The locking force within the differential can be varied continuously between 0 and 100%. The ABS system retains full functionality in all situations.

In addition to its own data and that provided by DSC, the Active M Differential’s control unit also takes into account the position of the accelerator pedal, the rotational speed of the wheels and the car’s yaw rate. Every driving situation is therefore analyzed so that any loss of traction on one side of the car is identified at an early stage. The degree of lock is adjusted as required within a fraction of a second, enabling wheel spin to be prevented on slippery surfaces, when the right and left rear wheel have widely differing friction coefficients and in tight corners. Optimizing traction in this way also provides unbeatable driving stability in challenging conditions and allows impressive dynamic acceleration out of corners.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/p...tem=node__4274

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Active M Differential.

The Active M Differential in the new M5 and M6 is an electronically controlled multi-plate limited-slip differential programmed to optimize traction, stability and sporting character.

The rear axle’s multi-plate limited-slip differential works with high precision and speed. Its control unit is connected with the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system via FlexRay high-speed data transfer technology and constantly cross-checks the data collected by its sensors with the feedback from DSC. It then uses this information to calculate the locking force required to deliver optimum traction and stability. The data recorded by DSC sensors is also passed on if the stability control system is switched off. The locking force within the differential can be varied continuously between 0 and 100%. The ABS system retains full functionality in all situations.

In addition to its own data and that provided by DSC, the Active M Differential’s control unit also takes into account the position of the accelerator pedal, the rotational speed of the wheels and the car’s yaw rate. Every driving situation is therefore analyzed so that any loss of traction on one side of the car is identified at an early stage. The degree of lock is adjusted as required within a fraction of a second, enabling wheel spin to be prevented on slippery surfaces, when the right and left rear wheel have widely differing friction coefficients and in tight corners. Optimizing traction in this way also provides unbeatable driving stability in challenging conditions and allows impressive dynamic acceleration out of corners.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/p...tem=node__4274

This is in OTHER than MDM or DSC off right?

[SocalBM]

Shame no one learns how to drive anymore. Just rely on the system to keep you safe; delicate little sheep.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

This is in OTHER than MDM or DSC off right?

Basically Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is responsible to keep the traction of car. There are many sensors monitoring the traction of wheels and reporting that data to ECU. When one wheel is losing the traction, ECU take action by applying brakes and cutting the engine and that's when you see DSC light is blinking. Exactly what we used to do 20 years ago when there was no ECU and we had to play with steering wheel, brakes and gas pedal. In MDM mode ECU gives you more freedom before interfering by changing the threshold; however still is there to interfere if you pass that threshold (ie losing the control) . In DSC OFF there is no help and ECU let you drive the car... man vs machine; however still collecting those data from those sensors and controlling the Limited Slip Differential / Active M Differential to change the torque vector. It means the wheel which is losing the traction get less torque; but not braking or engine cut.
I think this video will help understanding the LSD ...
This is just mechanical limited slip differential. In case of Active M Differential a DC more is located to engage/disengage those clutches very fast and more reliable. DC motor is getting prompt from ECU based on DSC sensors reports...

And this is the functionality of BMW Active M Differential

[M5essex]

Originally Posted by SocalBM

Shame no one learns how to drive anymore. Just rely on the system to keep you safe; delicate little sheep.

not very sympathetic but I have to agree... Lack of respect and talent is the issue. I do feel for the guy though

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by SocalBM

Shame no one learns how to drive anymore. Just rely on the system to keep you safe; delicate little sheep.

well for some cases yes but in general not completely agree with you!
Today's sport cars are monster. Lots of torque and power and less weight (compare to past decades). Without those nannies you must be very fast to take action, but keep in mind human body has delay and we are not that fast. You can control the car if you have enough room and that's why the driver of that car subject to this thread (C7 Z06) lost the control and could not do anything on that narrow road. This is the reason I always suggest people to avoid turning off the DSC while driving on street or even MDM on wet roads. DSC OFF is there for track purposes when you and your brain is set up to focus on driving and you have wide area to take action in case the control is lost; unless you are living your life by driving (ie track drivers) who are behind the wheel of super/sport cars every single day. We have more than enough struggles in our regular life to be focus at that level

[gmd2003]

It looked like he had a good while to counter imho ..... Poor Z06

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I think this video will help understanding the LSD ...

Very interesting. Thanks.

[Vic55]

Just saw this, reminds me of the poor local chap in his M4/M3 in sakhir snapping and jumping the center medium.

Note to self- don't buy a used red Z06.