991 GT3 stock vs F10 M5 Modded- Vid of Race

[Vic55]

I thought the M5 would have pulled harder but... power to weight is prevalent.

And the same GT3 vs a stock GTR

[M6-Coupe]

Looks like both cars (stock 991 vs tuned M5) have almost the same power to weight ratio (~6.7 lb/HP), but the reason M5 walked away is the high amount of torque available from 1500 all the way to 5700 RPM and this is the advantage of turbo charger compare to NA...
On the other hand GTR has better power to weight ratio as well as output torque (compare to 991)and on the paper must pull much harder, but she did not because of AWD and more powertrain loss...

As a side note, in term of acceleration, torque is much more important than power to weight ratio and that's why stock AMG GTS with less power to weight ratio (compare to 991) but 50% more torque walks away easily...
Acceleration is coming from Force (or torque) and power is there to support the continuity of acceleration...

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Looks like both cars (stock 991 vs tuned M5) have almost the same power to weight ratio (~6.7 lb/HP), but the reason M5 walked away is the high amount of torque available from 1500 all the way to 5700 RPM and this is the advantage of turbo charger compare to NA...
On the other hand GTR has better power to weight ratio as well as output torque (compare to 991)and on the paper must pull much harder, but she did not because of AWD and more powertrain loss...

As a side note, in term of acceleration, torque is much more important than power to weight ratio and that's why stock AMG GTS with less power to weight ratio (compare to 991) but 50% more torque walks away easily...
Acceleration is coming from Force (or torque) and power is there to support the continuity of acceleration...

Agree. The AMG GTS has an incredible sweet spot of tq thru the usable ranges. Now that I have tuned it- its even more formidable.

I wonder what hp that F10 M5 had--- it had some major mods by the listing.

[SocalBM]

Didn't expect the GTR to be that fast and definitely expected more from the tuned M5. However, congrats to the GT3; love that car.

[Wills2]

It's the extra power that makes itself known at higher speeds regardless of the PTWR, the GT3 holds and edges the m5 in the beginning but as the speed rises the M5's additional power is the main factor as wind resistance/drag becomes the main issue, you need power to punch through the air not lots of low down torque.

Obviously the M5 has lots of both, but the way they run those drag races the M5 would have been right at the top of each gear from the start.

[URBAN LEGEND]

So let me read this back to you:

1. AMG GTS should walk the stock M5 (not in any video in this thread) on a roll run.
2. GT3 is slower than stock M5 (not on any video in this thread) on a roll run.
3. GT3 engine sound is legend regardless of who wins.

Did I gather all info correctly?

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Looks like both cars (stock 991 vs tuned M5) have almost the same power to weight ratio (~6.7 lb/HP), but the reason M5 walked away is the high amount of torque available from 1500 all the way to 5700 RPM and this is the advantage of turbo charger compare to NA...
On the other hand GTR has better power to weight ratio as well as output torque (compare to 991)and on the paper must pull much harder, but she did not because of AWD and more powertrain loss...

As a side note, in term of acceleration, torque is much more important than power to weight ratio and that's why stock AMG GTS with less power to weight ratio (compare to 991) but 50% more torque walks away easily...
Acceleration is coming from Force (or torque) and power is there to support the continuity of acceleration...

The M5 is between 5500-7200 on this run, no one races at 1500rpm at least no one worth racing. The reason the m5 pulls away is because it makes and holds max hp from 5900 to redline. It is designed that way from the factory, adding 3psi with a bms just exaggerates the stock hp curve. The gt3 has to build power and is at ~15% lower hp after ever shift and needs to build hp to redline, whereas m5 is at ~max power after each shift and maintains hp.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

The M5 is between 5500-7200 on this run, no one races at 1500rpm at least no one worth racing. The reason the m5 pulls away is because it makes and holds max hp from 5900 to redline. It is designed that way from the factory, adding 3psi with a bms just exaggerates the stock hp curve. The gt3 has to build power and is at ~15% lower hp after ever shift and needs to build hp to redline, whereas m5 is at ~max power after each shift and maintains hp.

The M5 motor/tranny/e diff gearing combo is an amazing combo. I hope BMW leaves that combo as is.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by IANNUZZI

The M5 is between 5500-7200 on this run, no one races at 1500rpm at least no one worth racing. The reason the m5 pulls away is because it makes and holds max hp from 5900 to redline. It is designed that way from the factory, adding 3psi with a bms just exaggerates the stock hp curve. The gt3 has to build power and is at ~15% lower hp after ever shift and needs to build hp to redline, whereas m5 is at ~max power after each shift and maintains hp.

I didn't claim M5 is running at 1500 RPM. All I said was that there is a wide range of maximum torque from 1500 to 5700 RPM... Of course I know no one race at 1500 RPM
Also, If you watch more videos about these races in Europe (Gustav's races) they start the rolling races at 50 km/h (~31 mph) second gear when the M5 (at that speed and gear) starts the race at 3100 RPM. After redlining the second gear (70 mph) the upshift will put the RPM at 4700 (3rd gear). Redlining the 3rd gear at 108 mph the RPM reduces to 5400 RPM at 4th gear and then redlining the 4th gear at 143 mph , RPM again goes back to 5800 RPM in 5th gear which is the end of race after hitting speed limiter; however based on the gear ratios, each gear transfers more torque to the rear wheel than the upper gear and less than the lower gear...
BTW, S63tu generates the maximum power between 6000-7000 RPM
Here you can get some ideas about the relation between speed and RPM at given gear...
http://www.dragtimes.com/gear-ratio-...tton=Calculate

[Wills2]

As far as I'm aware they run from 50kph in first hence the better traction of the GT3 holds and edges the M5 until it fully hooks up and the additional power pushes the M5 ahead, the fact that the m5 is making max torque from 1500 is neither here not there in my opinion when it comes to a red line drag race.

You can tell they are in first due to the rapid shift into 2nd on most if not all the vids, I seriously doubt they are starting in 2nd.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Wills2

As far as I'm aware they run from 50kph in first hence the better traction of the GT3 holds and edges the M5 until it fully hooks up and the additional power pushes the M5 ahead, the fact that the m5 is making max torque from 1500 is neither here not there in my opinion when it comes to a red line drag race.

You can tell they are in first due to the rapid shift into 2nd on most if not all the vids, I seriously doubt they are starting in 2nd.

If you watch the other videos (specially M5 vs M3) you can hear the sound of gear shifting happens about 2-3 second after race starts and this proves the second shift. In first gear, M5 can go from 30 mph (~50km/h) to the redline (38 mph = 61 km/h)in less than one second so it's not possible if M5 starts at first gear...even the stock one

[Schnell_1]

Originally Posted by SocalBM

Didn't expect the GTR to be that fast and definitely expected more from the tuned M5. However, congrats to the GT3; love that car.

Opposite for me: I was actually surprised about how well the N/A GT3 faired against the Godzilla, that, despite its weight, is always freakishly venerable. Good vids.

[somer]

Same M5 vs 458 italia, M5 gets dusted lol

[IshR]

Lookes like the gt3 got the jump, if they reacted at the same time the m5 would have pulled much harder. A few milliseconds makes a surprisingly big difference.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by kbc

Same M5 vs 458 italia, M5 gets dusted lol

By Italia you meant Speciale ?

Did you expect M5 dusts super cars too? LOL

[allmotor_2000]

Anybody have a GT3, lambo or 458 they want to do a video - else we have to wait until late Oct @ shift-s3ctor.

Want to see the improvement given the torque advantage.

[SocalBM]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

Anybody have a GT3, lambo or 458 they want to do a video - else we have to wait until late Oct @ shift-s3ctor.

Want to see the improvement given the torque advantage.

Vic has all three and I'd gladly volunteer him so we can all watch some cool videos

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by SocalBM

Vic has all three and I'd gladly volunteer him so we can all watch some cool videos

Let me know when and where!

[IANNUZZI]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I didn't claim M5 is running at 1500 RPM. All I said was that there is a wide range of maximum torque from 1500 to 5700 RPM... Of course I know no one race at 1500 RPM
Also, If you watch more videos about these races in Europe (Gustav's races) they start the rolling races at 50 km/h (~31 mph) second gear when the M5 (at that speed and gear) starts the race at 3100 RPM. After redlining the second gear (70 mph) the upshift will put the RPM at 4700 (3rd gear). Redlining the 3rd gear at 108 mph the RPM reduces to 5400 RPM at 4th gear and then redlining the 4th gear at 143 mph , RPM again goes back to 5800 RPM in 5th gear which is the end of race after hitting speed limiter; however based on the gear ratios, each gear transfers more torque to the rear wheel than the upper gear and less than the lower gear...
BTW, S63tu generates the maximum power between 6000-7000 RPM
Here you can get some ideas about the relation between speed and RPM at given gear...
http://www.dragtimes.com/gear-ratio-...tton=Calculate

Bro forget about torque in this race , it's all about power. The torque did not help the m5 at the beginning of the race when the 911 pulled ahead.

The m5 loses considerably less % hp after every shift at high rpm. The m5 is always very close to maximum hp after shifts whereas the gt3 is not.

[momos750]

As a side note I find it laughable that the guy in the Porsche has a helmet on but his passenger, I'm assuming his son does not. What a douche...

[boots]

Good vids Vic

[somer]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

By Italia you meant Speciale ?

Did you expect M5 dusts super cars too? LOL

lol YES, yesterday was a very long day!