2017 Mb E63

[cjackson1906]

I saw this article last month and wondered if anyone had more news on the Merc, as well as considering leaving BMW for the new E63? If the exterior style of the C-Class makes it to the E-Class, that may be a nice looking E63 compared to the current version. MB needs to step up their technology and specifically I'm referring to that Command system, but the exterior of the C-Class is not bad at all. I'm just hoping/praying that BMW does not put that hockey stick thing that's on the new 7-Series on the next M5.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/20...-specs-rumors/

[stealth.pilot]

I'm considering switching to the next gen E63S. I think all recent Mercedes trump their BMW counterparts. The company has an edge and BMW has lost inspiration.

[Blackraven]

If you are looking for a German Performance Wagon, then MB might be the only one that will offer it via an E63 S Wagon (as BMW is sadly not interested in making an M5 wagon anymore and Audi North America doesn't want to bring the RS6 into USA + Canada).

MB might be your only option here...

[M6-Coupe]

The location of gearbox knob on the steering column by itself is more than enough reason to prevent me switching to C,S or next E class for now. Maybe when I hit 60's then will change my mind.... AMG GTS is different story....

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

The location of gearbox knob on the steering column by itself is more than enough reason to prevent me switching to C,S or next E class for now. Maybe when I hit 60's then will change my mind.... AMG GTS is different story....

No AMG model has the gear knob on the steering wheel. That's just the ordinary models. E63 has it in center console just like the GTS

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

No AMG model has the gear knob on the steering wheel. That's just the ordinary models. E63 has it in center console just like the GTS

The new C63s Sedan has knob on steering wheel.
The new S63 Coupe and Sedan have the same thing.
I wonder if the new E63 has the same thing too...

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

The new C63s Sedan has knob on steering wheel.
The new S63 Coupe and Sedan have the same thing.
I wonder if the new E63 has the same thing too...

You are right. I can only assume the C Class is a lower priced model and they couldn't be bothered to move it. I would be shocked if the E63 or CLS63 move away from the center console position.

That said it doesn't matter. They could just have buttons like Aston martin for all I care. I only shift with paddles or leave it in D2/3. I never shift with the knob.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I'm considering switching to the next gen E63S. I think all recent Mercedes trump their BMW counterparts. The company has an edge and BMW has lost inspiration.

You are of course entitled to your thoughts. The C63 doesn't trump the M3, in my view.

[RPiM5]

Good update.

Yes now that the new 2016 CTS-V is out, the next big thing in the high performance sedan world will be the new E63 AMG.

I really really like the new C63 AMG. Mercedes has successfully combined elegance with real performance. The new C63 completely blows away the old generation C63 in every department. The new 2015 C63 is even a car I would consider rather than an M3 despite the M3's superior use of carbon fiber and weight advantage.

I don't think that the next E63 will disappoint at all. Mercedes has worked some sorcery with their other new models such as the AMG-GT and the way that it handles and puts the power down. I agree, that if the interior is anything like the new C63 that will be very good.

One thing I do not like about all Mercedes AMG models though is that they lack differentiation in engines. The AMG-GT, the 2015 C63 and now the 2017 E63 will all use the same exact engine, albeit with different outputs. How come no one else has a problem with that but me? I understand it saves billions of dollars in design and production costs, but how boring is that? Yes, its true I do think that Mercedes 4.0L Hot-V V8 a better sounding engine than the S55, but at least the M3/M4 has a different engine than the M5/M6.

There's a few other smaller reasons why I would not get an E63 over the current generation or next generation M5, which are mostly ergonomic, cosmetic and aesthetic though. I do think the 2017 E63 will be a better car than the M5 in some areas though but overall the car still wouldn't speak to me, not unless M Division pulls a bonehead move and uses some sort of hybrid assist drivetrain with a 6 cylinder turbo engine in the next M5 and subsequently takes away all of the character of the car.

But we'll all just have to wait and see. I mean even the new 2016 CTS-V is disappointing in many areas, one of which is the 1/4 mile time, surprisingly. The next generation CLS-63 I am looking forward to seeing since Mercedes are basically the ones who invented that segment of the market, but other than that the AMG-GT is their best car right now even if the front and rear end do look slightly weird to me.

[cjackson1906]

I think MB is headed in the right direction with some of their changes and I hope the technology (and that iPad looking nav screen) gets updated in the next generation E63. Also, I think if Porsche updates the Panamera's rear and technology, it could also be in the conversation in 2018.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by bm323

You are of course entitled to your thoughts. The C63 doesn't trump the M3, in my view.

8 cylinders > 6 cylinders

Especially on a stock exhaust comparo

[yeuchau]

waiting to see the actual picture, I hate the current E63 taillights.

[Squddie]

They are switching to a turbo, only gaining 25 horsepower from it, and use a 9-speed automatic transmission that is not a DCT.

Nah.

I mean unless wagon.

[shahano]

Nope not for me. 8 is already too much, but nine.. wtf.. why

[AstonMartian777]

The only reason to go with the AMG is the AWD over an M otherwise Benz SUCKS, I drove so many different ones and besides a C63 everything else sucked balls.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Squddie

They are switching to a turbo, only gaining 25 horsepower from it, and use a 9-speed automatic transmission that is not a DCT.

Nah.

I mean unless wagon.

So you are saying the next generation E63 AMG is going to have a 9spd Automatic Transmission? Source?

If this is true, yeah that may turn off a lot of people. It's true Auto transmissions are getting very good, but DCT is still superior. The problem some manufacturers may have with DCT's though is the torque of these monster turbo engines these days, so it could be understandable.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So you are saying the next generation E63 AMG is going to have a 9spd Automatic Transmission? Source?

If this is true, yeah that may turn off a lot of people. It's true Auto transmissions are getting very good, but DCT is still superior. The problem some manufacturers may have with DCT's though is the torque of these monster turbo engines these days, so it could be understandable.

The way Automakers are going, we have to expect a 15 speed AT with the new definition of gear per 10 mph very soon LOL.
Yeah you are right DCT (especially M DCT) is the best transmission in the world

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So you are saying the next generation E63 AMG is going to have a 9spd Automatic Transmission? Source?

If this is true, yeah that may turn off a lot of people. It's true Auto transmissions are getting very good, but DCT is still superior. The problem some manufacturers may have with DCT's though is the torque of these monster turbo engines these days, so it could be understandable.

I doubt it. I think it will have the same 7 speed DCT as the GT.

They introduced the 9 speed automatic on the 2016 CLS550, but the 2016 CLS63 still uses the 7 speed MCT. I think they realize that the 9 speed isn't suited to a performance car.

To answer @M6-Coupe question - I think that they can't go for much more gears. At some point there is very little difference between a 10 or 15 speed transmission and a CVT.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I doubt it. I think it will have the same 7 speed DCT as the GT.

Not with todays technology. The current DCT gearboxes cannot tolerate that much torque and that's why SL63 with 700+ lb-ft of torque has MCT and not DCT. AMG GTS has about 500 lb-ft torque and has DCT the same as SLS with almost the same (a little less) torque.

You may be interested to watch this video:

They introduced the 9 speed automatic on the 2016 CLS550, but the 2016 CLS63 still uses the 7 speed MCT. I think they realize that the 9 speed isn't suited to a performance car.

Because torque converter Automatic Transmissions are not fast enough for AMG. On the other hands the main advantage and the reason they are getting more popular are the fuel efficiency and smoothness of gear shifting.
MCT is Clutch based transmission BTW.

To answer @M6-Coupe question - I think that they can't go for much more gears. At some point there is very little difference between a 10 or 15 speed transmission and a CVT.

I know buddy... I was jus joking...referring to this video LOL

[stealth.pilot]

I don't think this is true. There are DCTs operating over 600hp.

The most famous example is this one:

But also the one in the Aventador, and the Getrag DCT that was in the SLS-GT Black.

[M6-Coupe]

I am talking about torque and not power.
Fro transmission the amount of input (and output) torque is important because the gears are torque changer not power changer.
Normally the output torque of transmission is the amount of input torque multiple by gear ratio while the amount of output power is equal to input power (putting drivetrain loss out of picture). For example if the maximum torque of your M5 is 500 lb-ft, then at first gear between 1500-5700 RPM the output torque of your DCT is 2400 lb-ft (500 * 4.8).
In case of SLS Black series, although the engine generates 622 HP, but the maximum torque is only 468 lb-ft and that's why when MB introduced the AMG GTS with higher torque, they modified the same Getrag DCT for higher torque.

Here you can find the technical information for both cars:

Mercedes-Benz AMG GTS:
Engine
Number of cylinders/arrangement V8, 4 valves per cylinder
Displacement cc 3982
Bore x stroke mm 83.0 x 92.0
Rated output kW/hp 375 (510) at 6250 rpm
Rated torque Nm 650 at 1750-4750 rpm
Compression ratio 10.5 : 1
Mixture formation Microprocessor-controlled direct petrol injection, biturbocharging
Power transmission
Drive Standard drive, transaxle
Transmission AMG SPEEDSHIFT DCT 7-speed sports transmission

Gear ratios

1st gear 3.4
2nd gear 2.19
3rd gear1.63
4th gear 1.29
5th gear 1.03
6 gear 0.84
7th gear 0.63
Reverse 2.79

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...1bt59ZBwY-TJGQ


Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series
Engine
Number of cylinders/arrangement V8, 4 valves per cylinder
Displacement cc 6208
Bore x stroke mm 102.2 x 94.6
Rated output kW/hp 464/631 at 7400 rpm
Rated torque Nm 635 at 5500 rpm
Compression ratio 11.3:1
Mixture formation Microprocessor-controlled petrol injection, HFM
Power transmission
Drive system Standard drive, transaxle
Transmission AMG SPEEDSHIFT DCT 7-speed sports transmission with electronically controlled differential lock

Gear ratios
1st gear 3.4
2nd gear 2.19
3rd gear 1.63
4th gear 1.29
5th gear 1.03
6th gear 0.84
7th gear 0.72
Reverse 2.79

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Xzn78N4SdCsqqQ

In case of Bugatti you are right. The engine is generating over 1000 lb-ft of torque and I have no idea about their DCT technology...maybe the technology (for higher torque DCT) is there but still very expensive that can be only reasonable for a 2 million dollar car like Bugatti...

[cjackson1906]

From BMW Blog: http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/16/20...pressive-tech/