Calling the experts: E92 6MT

[Tommy L Garage]

Hi all,

Looooong time lurker, first time poster. While I did some searching and read stickes, I wanted to confirm some things with the experts here.

I'm interested in purchasing a 2011 E92 M3 with a 6 speed MT and 47K miles.
Alpine white and red fox leather. Going to check it out this weekend. 0

The car has a Comp. Package, Convenience, Cold Weather, Premium 2 and enhance sound. Modifications include an M performance spoiler, a CF rear diffuser and a 35% tint.

The Asking Price is $36,900

I pulled the CarFax and all looks OK. Car never had any issues or work done. Brakes have about 20K left and tires are fairly new (owner had other wheels on it).

On the bad side, the car has a small dent in the rear quarter panel (size of a quarter) which could probably be pulled by a dent doctor and a 12 inch scratch, which could or could not be buffed out.

At this point in the game I know all about rod bearings and throttle actuators. The owner said he had no issues with it (hasnt done the oil test), nor has he ever replaced it. I haven't done a PPI yet but he said a previous person interested in the car had it pulled and came back with a few scratches on the rear diff guard (odd), missing bolts from the under engine shield and a steering sensor being off, which was apparently fixed with an alignment. Does that sound OK?

Knowing all of this, seeing the inventory out there and based on the condition of the car I'm thinking the car is worth closer to $32K. The way I see it, between the clutch which will have to be replaced probably soon, the must-have bearing and actuator fix and the dent and a scratch, that should give me some buffer to account for future expenses.

What's the expected AVERAGE longevity on a stock E92 clutch?

Also, any thoughts on my planned offer price?

My plan is to daily the car to and from the train station (4 miles one way), track a few times a year and some weekend excursions with my wife and a 13-month daughter (we own a station wagon for longer family trips).

Thanks in advance.

[Mvy]

Ill let others chime in on the final price but to your clutch question, its quite hard to tell when buying used what to expect. Everyone says they baby the clutch, but most mash the hell out of it, let a friend drive it, valet park it, teach their kids to drive on it etc. Mine lasted 47k before it gave out on me. Others here will tell you theirs lasted over 100k. My advise on buying used is expect its needed, along with the brakes, sooner than advertised. Some estimated costs for indy shop replacement are below to help.

Clutch replacement :$1500
TAs: $2300
RB replacement: $2000

Id start by negotiating $5800 off the total for these reasons. If you land at 3k off you made out well.

[R3dliner]

zcp 6mt with fox red, wont be on the market for long. Clutch is all dependent on driving style. Heck my last car my clutched(CSC) died at 110k and I bought the car new. Pressure plate still had some bite left.
No way its worth 32k and especially in NY. LOL
It's a fair price. Try to neg down to 35k

[drummer20]

i got a 6MT 2008 with 43k miles and I was fretting over the clutch too, a replacement is especially expensive for the 2008s. I dug into it a bit and the clutches seem to last pretty decently I think. I called a dealership and an indy in the Dallas area a couple years ago and they both are were like "the clutch? we hadn't had anyone come in for one yet". Also I don't see them being discussed much on the forum. I finally decided that they must be fairly durable unless you are just beating the hell out of them.

One thing I will note is that it sounds like you will be typically be driving this car for just 4 miles at a time. So a large portion of your driving will be with the fluids under normal operating temperature. These cars aren't really made for that with their thick engine oil and such. If I were you, I would keep the M3 a pretty and clean in the garage for longer rides or weekends and get a beater for that 4 mile commute. I used to have a beater but lately I have had to DD mine and it kinda bugs me. Too hard to keep it clean cuz i will only hand wash it.

As for the price, i would say it's a bit high but any smart sell ought to list it higher. Visible damage to the paint is a big turn off for me though. Also I was under the impression northeastern cars run cheaper than the South cuz of the harsher weather. i bought my 1 owner AW 2008 5 years old with 27k miles and exterior had nothing major wrong for 39.5k. Of course, now i have a bit of rock chips and whatnot. I think you got a while before you need to do RB, but you just entered the danger zone for TAs => 45k-90k. This car is 6 years old now, has more miles, has exterior damage and is from the northeast but it has some light mods. I think I would be hard pressed to offer more than 33k but then again I already have one so who knows what I would do heh.

[jiggz]

I think the car is reasonably priced for the year, mileage, color combo, and options.

It's a used car and stuff will have to be replaced at some point in the future. I don't think you can add those items up and take that # off the price - the current owner is selling it now and is not responsible for repairs 1, 2, 3 years down the road.

Nothing wrong with negotiating and perhaps getting the price down a little, but whacking 4-5K off the price because of TA's and RB's...I don't think that's reasonable. At least if I was the owner I wouldn't entertain that. The TA's could last another 20-30K miles, and the RB's may not ever need replacing.

As someone else said, AW/FR won't last. I wouldn't sit on it too long if your serious about buying it.

[bkdore]

Originally Posted by jiggz

It's a used car and stuff will have to be replaced at some point in the future. I don't think you can add those items up and take that # off the price - the current owner is selling it now and is not responsible for repairs 1, 2, 3 years down the road.

Exactly. It's like saying the Rod bearings are going to fail someday so you need him to take $20,000 off the selling price so you can replace the engine. You are buying the car in working condition. You can negotiate over things that aren't right - like the dent. You should budget some of your own money in case a actuator fails, evaporator starts leaking or the clutch starts slipping a couple months after you buy it. Even a PPI might not discover those things.

Be careful using comparable prices you see online without actually inspecting the car. With a 7 year old car condition really starts to make a big difference in the price. I've looked at cars on dealer lots selling for book value and they had dings, chips, curb rash on the wheels, worn rear tires, peeling interior, dull paint and were just plain dirty. A car with the same year and mileage in excellent condition could easily be worth thousands more.

Good luck!

[m3nace92]

If you're lucky, you'll get it for 33.5k-34k.

For my 2009 optioned the way I wanted and 68k miles, I paid 30k back in May. Assuming there's nothing else serious and you can justify the paint and dent issues, I'd start with an offer at 33k highlighting the costs of paint correction, pdr, etc. and go from there. Just don't be a dick about it and they'll likely hear you out and take it all into consideration. Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect the car to last long.

[GT3fan]

That is an extremely desirable color combo in my opinion. I assume it has the CF roof/no sunroof?

If I was the seller I would ignore your reasoning of clutch, TAs and rod bearings as a negotiating tactic with the exception of the clutch was currently slipping.

Offer a couple thousand less and see where it goes. I think the asking price is actually reasonable assuming it's clean.

Good luck!

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by tomedkaz

Hi all,

Looooong time lurker, first time poster. While I did some searching and read stickes, I wanted to confirm some things with the experts here.

I'm interested in purchasing a 2011 E92 M3 with a 6 speed MT and 47K miles.
Alpine white and red fox leather. Going to check it out this weekend. 0

The car has a Comp. Package, Convenience, Cold Weather, Premium 2 and enhance sound. Modifications include an M performance spoiler, a CF rear diffuser and a 35% tint.

The Asking Price is $36,900

I pulled the CarFax and all looks OK. Car never had any issues or work done. Brakes have about 20K left and tires are fairly new (owner had other wheels on it).

On the bad side, the car has a small dent in the rear quarter panel (size of a quarter) which could probably be pulled by a dent doctor and a 12 inch scratch, which could or could not be buffed out.

At this point in the game I know all about rod bearings and throttle actuators. The owner said he had no issues with it (hasnt done the oil test), nor has he ever replaced it. I haven't done a PPI yet but he said a previous person interested in the car had it pulled and came back with a few scratches on the rear diff guard (odd), missing bolts from the under engine shield and a steering sensor being off, which was apparently fixed with an alignment. Does that sound OK?

Knowing all of this, seeing the inventory out there and based on the condition of the car I'm thinking the car is worth closer to $32K. The way I see it, between the clutch which will have to be replaced probably soon, the must-have bearing and actuator fix and the dent and a scratch, that should give me some buffer to account for future expenses.

What's the expected AVERAGE longevity on a stock E92 clutch?

Also, any thoughts on my planned offer price?

My plan is to daily the car to and from the train station (4 miles one way), track a few times a year and some weekend excursions with my wife and a 13-month daughter (we own a station wagon for longer family trips).

Thanks in advance.

a 2011 E92 M3 with a 6 speed MT and 47K miles is worth much more than that seller offer price. I you want the car then run and pay before someone else steals it at that price. Otherwise i would kindly advise you to look at a car within your budget like a VW Golf GTi or a good Mustang model year. Good luck

[kimiraikkonen]

If you drive the clutch correctly, it should last definitely more than 120K+. People that lug the clutch (upshifting at 1K rpms or doing drop clutch starts) are the ones that see premature clutch replacement. Don't fret about the clutch, as you will likely be replacing rod bearings sooner.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by jiggz

I think the car is reasonably priced for the year, mileage, color combo, and options.

It's a used car and stuff will have to be replaced at some point in the future. I don't think you can add those items up and take that # off the price - the current owner is selling it now and is not responsible for repairs 1, 2, 3 years down the road.

Nothing wrong with negotiating and perhaps getting the price down a little, but whacking 4-5K off the price because of TA's and RB's...I don't think that's reasonable. At least if I was the owner I wouldn't entertain that. The TA's could last another 20-30K miles, and the RB's may not ever need replacing.

As someone else said, AW/FR won't last. I wouldn't sit on it too long if your serious about buying it.

+10000000.

If I were to sell my car and someone tried knocking off the replacement price of preventative RB/TA jobs, I'd promptly hang up the phone.

If a few missing screws on the underbody and a few scuffs on the low-hanging rear diff cover bother you, then why are you buying a used car?

People buying with used car pricing and expecting an as-new vehicle are funny.

[Tommy L Garage]

Thanks guys for your thoughts and insight - I appreciate it.

JoeM3SSII - my price range is wide, but I work in Finance so I always analyze and look for the most appealing deals. I've got more leverage here since there are a ton of CPs around - not necessarily with the red interior but that doesn't matter to me that much.


Anyways - thanks again.

[monterey]

If the paint is not cracked on the dent then you don't really have much to bargain with. Why do you feel that you need a clutch soon? Unfortunately the car you want has probably the highest resale value 35k out the door is fair. Also, like what others have said, 4 miles does not make for a healthy car. I bought an electric kick scooter for my last mile commute.

[srmast1]

The question you have to ask yourself is if you owned that car and had listed it at $36,900, would you take $32k for it, especially when 36900 is a good price for a relatively desired build. Add the comp package and the lowish miles and I feel as if it's a fair price. Also, unless you live in a very warm climate, the car isn't even going to warm up over the 4 miles, subsequently you will end up driving it below 3000 rpm all the way to work. This car is very un-fun under 3000 rpm. You could warm it up prior, but that is not suggested per the owner's manual.