New kid in town

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 09:15 AM

Hello everyone! Been lurking the forums and really been eyeing either the M3 or M4. Currently, I have a 2015 VW GTI but I'm thinking I need to get out of the boy racer scene (Just turned 39). Getting ready to retire from the Air Force and considering on which car to give to myself as a gift. I've considered a Z06, and a GTR, but now considering the M3/4. I would most likely get a used one with low miles. I've always been a firm believer on letting the original owner take the depreciation. My Father is an avid BMW/Porsche guy. Any advice since I'm a NEWB to the BMW scene? Besides the obvious differences between the M3/4 platform being a 2 door versus 4, is the performance a huge difference? Performance pkg. a must? All I know the exhaust sounds better on the perf. pkg. Thanks in advance! - Shane

Super Spartan · 08-27-2017, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirForceOne

Hello everyone! Been lurking the forums and really been eyeing either the M3 or M4. Currently, I have a 2015 VW GTI but I'm thinking I need to get out of the boy racer scene (Just turned 39). Getting ready to retire from the Air Force and considering on which car to give to myself as a gift. I've considered a Z06, and a GTR, but now considering the M3/4. I would most likely get a used one with low miles. I've always been a firm believer on letting the original owner take the depreciation. My Father is an avid BMW/Porsche guy. Any advice since I'm a NEWB to the BMW scene? Besides the obvious differences between the M3/4 platform being a 2 door versus 4, is the performance a huge difference? Performance pkg. a must? All I know the exhaust sounds better on the perf. pkg. Thanks in advance! - Shane

The M3/M4 have the exact same specs/performance numbers. The only question you need to ask is do you want a 2 door or 4 door?

And yes, definitely get the Competition Package M3/M4, if anything, for those burbles and improved exhaust note alone...

Who's on first · 08-27-2017, 09:23 AM

Rip an M4 CP down Turnagain Arm through the Whittier tunnel and you?ll never doubt your decision.

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

The M3/M4 have the exact same specs/performance numbers. The only question you need to ask is do you want a 2 door or 4 door?

And yes, definitely get the Competition Package M3/M4, if anything, for those burbles and improved exhaust note alone...

Thanks for that! Does the Competition Package only come with the larger wheels? I've read it can be a pretty harsh ride due to the lower profile tires and different suspension set up.

ThaGeNeCySt · 08-27-2017, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirForceOne

Thanks for that! Does the Competition Package only come with the larger wheels? I've read it can be a pretty harsh ride due to the lower profile tires and different suspension set up.

larger wheels, more HP, better sounding exhaust (depending on who you ask)

Super Spartan · 08-27-2017, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirForceOne

Thanks for that! Does the Competition Package only come with the larger wheels? I've read it can be a pretty harsh ride due to the lower profile tires and different suspension set up.

That's pure bullshit spread over the forums from jealous people who don't have the Competition Package to try to justify their decision that they don't want it.

I've had a 2017 M4 Convertible (without the competition pack) back in March, owned it for 3 months then traded it in for a 2018 but with the Competition Package.

There is 0 difference in the ride quality I feel. Put it in comfort mode for the suspension and steering and it's smooth as silk. The suspension has been tweaked but only for the better. I feel it's more manageable and you can take corners with more confidence. Maybe there is a slight difference, but as a casual driver, I don't feel it. It is not as harsh anyway as a GT350 or a GTR so don't worry too much about this, but it's not a Toyota Camry or Lexus as well, you're buying a sports car.

Other than the list below, the most obvious change you will really feel as a driver is a) the power delivery, it's more linear now and doesn't just surprise you by not giving you the full power then throwing it all at you in one shot. Now you *feel* the car going fast and the power just keeps climbing gradually it's intoxicating. and b) the exhaust, the previous car with silent like a Honda Civic unless you floored it but now it's much deeper and when driving at low to moderate speeds and lift off your foot from the gas pedal, you hear the beautiful burbles...

Don't forget, with the competition package, you get all the blacked out parts as standard like the black side gills, front grille, rear M emblem, so you don't have to spend extra on buying them

Here is the complete list

- Power output: 444 HP (output increase of +19 HP)
0-60 DCT: 3.8 seconds (sedan/coupe), 4.1 seconds (convertible)
- M Sports exhaust system with black chrome exhaust tailpipes
- Tuned Adaptive M Suspension (SA 2VF) with new settings
- New Springs
- New Dampers
- New Anti-Roll Bars
- Reconfigured driving modes (Comfort, Sport and Sport+)
- New Settings for DSC / Active M Differential
- Exclusive 20" M light allow wheels Star-spoke style 666M Forged, machine-polished, weight-and rigidity-optimized, multi-spoke wheels (front 9J ×20; rear10 J ×20) Mixed tires sizes (front: 265/30 R20, rear: 285/30 R20)
- M Seats with break-through elements in seat back (Coupe/Sedan only); deletion of lumbar support
- Seatbelts with woven-in BMW M stripes (Coupe/Sedan only)
- BMW Individual high-gloss Shadow Line with extended content: kidney frame, grill, rear model designation in Black high-gloss, including regular SA760 content

$5500 for sedan/coupe, $5000 for convertible

alex2364 · 08-27-2017, 09:48 AM

Plus you can get the Competition Package with 19" wheels, but most people don't and if you're buying used they'll be almost impossible to find.

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 09:49 AM

Great info Snappy Phoenix! Thank you for the advice and breakdown.

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex2364

Plus you can get the Competition Package with 19" wheels, but most people don't and if you're buying used they'll be almost impossible to find.

Well if the ride isn't as harsh as some people try and make it out to be, then I wouldn't mind the 666 wheels at all.

Super Spartan · 08-27-2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirForceOne

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex2364

Plus you can get the Competition Package with 19" wheels, but most people don't and if you're buying used they'll be almost impossible to find.

Well if the ride isn't as harsh as some people try and make it out to be, then I wouldn't mind the 666 wheels at all.

it isn't, they look fabulous especially in real life and more so if they are the black variant not the silver ones.

In fact, they make the car really stand out as the standard 3 or 4 series has the same wheels but a bit smaller than your standard M3/M4. But with the 666M Wheels from the Competition Package, your car will stand out even when someone sees it from a distance, they know it's an M car

here's mine:

lukej · 08-27-2017, 10:06 AM

First of all,,,,,Welcome to the forum,, you will learn real quick that there are the die hard M3 Fans and the die hard M4 fans same with the CP fans and DCT vs the Manual.. good luck with all that..

I have a 2017 M4 Black CP MCT and love it..

One thing you have to remember is these cars are built to pretty much go to the track,, so no matter what car you pick they not going to ride like a luxury car ..
They are a lot of fun and everyday drivability is good in normal mode.. The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one..
But lots of fun once you get comfortable with it... I have not drove the Manual car,, I'm older guy and just done with the shifting thing .. been there done that.. But heard there very nice with the rev matching..

At the end of the day ,, Take your time ,,drive all of them.. pick what you like, not what everybody tells you.. don't get wrapped up on his forum with the do's and don't 's ..

This is a great forum with some great advice .. You just have to weed though it..

Good Luck on your ride!,!

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukej

First of all,,,,,Welcome to the forum,, you will learn real quick that there are the die hard M3 Fans and the die hard M4 fans same with the CP fans and DCT vs the Manual.. good luck with all that..

I have a 2017 M4 Black CP MCT and love it..

One thing you have to remember is these cars are built to pretty much go to the track,, so no matter what car you pick they not going to ride like a luxury car ..
They are a lot of fun and everyday drivability is good in normal mode.. The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one..
But lots of fun once you get comfortable with it... I have not drove the Manual car,, I'm older guy and just done with the shifting thing .. been there done that.. But heard there very nice with the rev matching..

At the end of the day ,, Take your time ,,drive all of them.. pick what you like, not what everybody tells you.. don't get wrapped up on his forum with the do's and don't 's ..

This is a great forum with some great advice .. You just have to weed though it..

Good Luck on your ride!,!

Roger that good Sir! My VW GTI is a DSG DCT. I know I can't compare an M3/4 to my GTI, but the DSG DCT is a nice set up as well. I just turned 39, so I think I want to get back into a manual trans. Expecting my first kid so a 4 door may be a smarter thing to do; however, that 4 door is really sexy! Hey that's what my Grand Cherokee is for, right? Hauling the kids. LOL Lastly, thank you for the warm welcome. Looking forward to shopping for my next M-series. - Shane

lukej · 08-27-2017, 10:21 AM

That's why they make Neapolitan and Ice Cream flavor for everybody !! LOL

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukej

That's why they make Neapolitan and Ice Cream flavor for everybody !! LOL

Touche'!

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

it isn't, they look fabulous especially in real life and more so if they are the black variant not the silver ones.

In fact, they make the car really stand out as the standard 3 or 4 series has the same wheels but a bit smaller than your standard M3/M4. But with the 666M Wheels from the Competition Package, your car will stand out even when someone sees it from a distance, they know it's an M car

here's mine:

You have an absolutely beautiful car! That is the color I want! You're correct, those wheels definitely do stand out more! BTW...that's awesome you live in Dubai. Wife and I are going to visit there someday soon.

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 10:26 AM

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...searchRadius=0
Here is something I saw. Something like this a reasonable deal?

JSM2 · 08-27-2017, 10:37 AM

I love my M3. Here's some notes for you.

1. There's no BMW dealer in Fairbanks last time I checked, so if you're retiring up near Eielson AFB then a BMW might be annoying to have serviced. I'm pretty OCD about my cars, I would personally have a hard time driving my M3 there with all the frost heaves, and gravel roads / parking lots.

2. I'm guessing M3/4 CP cars aren't very common up there, but the 666 wheels really have to be seen in person to appreciate. The pictures don't do them justice. The biggest issue with these wheels is that there isn't a ton of tire options, and the OEM tires are a bit traction limited for the amount of torque the car has. (I doubt you'll find snow tires that fit the 666's.)

3. The OEM pads dust a lot, and cleaning the 666 CP wheels can be pretty time consuming. (SONAX and a pressure washer is the best way I've found).

4. "The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one." This is very true. The DCT doesn't creep forward on its own, like a normal automatic, and some of the gear transitions can be pretty jerky. It's an awesome transmission for going fast, but I recommend some research on this if you're thinking about the DCT.

M3/4 is a beautiful and fun to drive car.
Good luck.

AJM1125 · 08-27-2017, 10:40 AM

The M3/M4 are both great cars. Just really depends on what purpose you need it for. Also I have a 2015 non competition package M4 before all the used 16 comp's started hitting the market. Wheels aside you do get the burbles, a few more horses, and unique suspension to the competition package. But, with a tune (Vf engineering hex tune) or similar you can get 50-80 horse power which is more than what the competition package is. Get the burbles too. You just don't get the suspension and wheels but in all you pay a less and can always upgrade the wheels to what you want. Don't get me wrong the competition package is great! I drove both non and competition package but I wouldn't let that be the deal breaker.

silverstar335 · 08-27-2017, 10:49 AM

I would like to share my experience, that would hopefully give you yet another objective perspective. I got a 2017 F80 with the adaptive suspension and the stock 19" wheels but I dont have the Competition package. The ride quality was very good especially in Comfort and in Sport modes, Sport Plus made it a bit tighter but definitely not harsh.

Couple of months into it, I decided to get the M Performance suspension and lowered the car 20mm in the front and 15mm in the rear. Keep in mind that BMW's recommended suspension settings are 20mm and 8mm respectively if I am not mistaken. I do like to point out that I also got the latest software installed at that time, for me that was 3.60.4. Ride quality did not change but the car has been much more composed and less bouncy, a noticable improvement.

Then, I started looking at forged wheels and after getting a very lightweight 19" set, decided to get a 20" set. Just like you I was very concerned about the ride quality. I test drove for extended periods of time a friend of mine's M3 with the Competition Package and the ride was definitely harsh in Sport and in Sport Plus modes but not too bad in Comfort. That did not stop me from getting a set of forged 20" wheels on MPS4s, with the typical 265/30 and 295/30 staggered setup. I was extremely surprised by the improvement in ride comfort, it was completely counter intuitive, you would think bigger wheels + thinner tire sidewalls = harsher ride, definitely not the case. Actually, exactly the opposite, cant explain that.

Bottom line, my perspective

, a 20" set of wheels with good tires will not compromise the ride quality, at least it did not for me. I suspect it is the upgraded suspension parts of the Competition package that makes the ride noticeably different and at times harsh, not the 20" wheels. Going with 19" wheels and the Competition package may not give you the end result you are looking for.

Super Spartan · 08-27-2017, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirForceOne

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...searchRadius=0
Here is something I saw. Something like this a reasonable deal?

looks nice and it's a certified pre-owned so even better.

Just shop around a little more maybe you can find a competition package with the black style 666M wheels instead of silver but that's not bad at all

AirForceOne · 08-27-2017, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSM2

I love my M3. Here's some notes for you.

1. There's no BMW dealer in Fairbanks last time I checked, so if you're retiring up near Eielson AFB then a BMW might be annoying to have serviced. I'm pretty OCD about my cars, I would personally have a hard time driving my M3 there with all the frost heaves, and gravel roads / parking lots.

2. I'm guessing M3/4 CP cars aren't very common up there, but the 666 wheels really have to be seen in person to appreciate. The pictures don't do them justice. The biggest issue with these wheels is that there isn't a ton of tire options, and the OEM tires are a bit traction limited for the amount of torque the car has. (I doubt you'll find snow tires that fit the 666's.)

3. The OEM pads dust a lot, and cleaning the 666 CP wheels can be pretty time consuming. (SONAX and a pressure washer is the best way I've found).

4. "The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one." This is very true. The DCT doesn't creep forward on its own, like a normal automatic, and some of the gear transitions can be pretty jerky. It's an awesome transmission for going fast, but I recommend some research on this if you're thinking about the DCT.

M3/4 is a beautiful and fun to drive car.
Good luck.

Thanks for the advice!!! Oh nooo, I'm not retiring in AK. LOL Either back to the Denver, CO area or FL near my folks...leaving here very soon! BTW, where in CO are ya? Trust me, owning a VW is even a pain in the ass here.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I'm definitely absorbing all the great info!

JSM2 · 08-27-2017, 11:12 AM

Hey,

Well possibly welcome to CO lol. I'm up near Boulder, but I grew up not too far from Eielson.

There's lots of pretty good BMW dealers here in Colorado. Schomp BMW down in South Denver is a pretty chill, high volume dealer (both new and used), so they would be a good place to keep an eye on.

Some more notes for you: I could be wrong about this (I bought mine new) but I don't think BMW normally CPO's M-cars, so keep that in mind when you're buying used, so that you make sure you have ample warranty left. Also BMW just changed how their lease system works so that's not nearly as attractive a deal as it was a year ago. Lastly don't get thrown off (discouraged) by MSRP values on the new cars, most people "in the know" are paying closer to invoice for new BMW's.

08-27-2017, 09:15 AM	#1
AirForceOne New Member 6 Rep 25 Posts Drives: 2015 VW GTI Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Eielson AFB, AK iTrader: (0)	New kid in town Hello everyone! Been lurking the forums and really been eyeing either the M3 or M4. Currently, I have a 2015 VW GTI but I'm thinking I need to get out of the boy racer scene (Just turned 39). Getting ready to retire from the Air Force and considering on which car to give to myself as a gift. I've considered a Z06, and a GTR, but now considering the M3/4. I would most likely get a used one with low miles. I've always been a firm believer on letting the original owner take the depreciation. My Father is an avid BMW/Porsche guy. Any advice since I'm a NEWB to the BMW scene? Besides the obvious differences between the M3/4 platform being a 2 door versus 4, is the performance a huge difference? Performance pkg. a must? All I know the exhaust sounds better on the perf. pkg. Thanks in advance! - Shane
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08-27-2017, 09:23 AM	#3
Who's on first Brigadier General 2464 Rep 3,803 Posts Drives: A-10C Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Maryland iTrader: (2)	Rip an M4 CP down Turnagain Arm through the Whittier tunnel and you?ll never doubt your decision.
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08-27-2017, 09:48 AM	#7
alex2364 Colonel 2874 Rep 2,759 Posts Drives: 2020 M4 ZCP / 2023 X3 M40i Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2020 BMW M4 [10.00] 2023 BMW X3 M40i [10.00]	Plus you can get the Competition Package with 19" wheels, but most people don't and if you're buying used they'll be almost impossible to find.
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08-27-2017, 09:49 AM	#8
AirForceOne New Member 6 Rep 25 Posts Drives: 2015 VW GTI Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Eielson AFB, AK iTrader: (0)	Great info Snappy Phoenix! Thank you for the advice and breakdown.
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08-27-2017, 10:06 AM	#11
lukej Lieutenant 387 Rep 544 Posts Drives: 2020 M4 Comp, Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	Welcome First of all,,,,,Welcome to the forum,, you will learn real quick that there are the die hard M3 Fans and the die hard M4 fans same with the CP fans and DCT vs the Manual.. good luck with all that.. I have a 2017 M4 Black CP MCT and love it.. One thing you have to remember is these cars are built to pretty much go to the track,, so no matter what car you pick they not going to ride like a luxury car .. They are a lot of fun and everyday drivability is good in normal mode.. The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one.. But lots of fun once you get comfortable with it... I have not drove the Manual car,, I'm older guy and just done with the shifting thing .. been there done that.. But heard there very nice with the rev matching.. At the end of the day ,, Take your time ,,drive all of them.. pick what you like, not what everybody tells you.. don't get wrapped up on his forum with the do's and don't 's .. This is a great forum with some great advice .. You just have to weed though it.. Good Luck on your ride!,! __________________ 1."Luck" is an excuse for people that have failed at their mission to do something! (Allan McNish) 2. I’m not an (EXPERT) I’m just here with an opinion. So don’t hate me. (lukej) Last edited by lukej; 08-27-2017 at 10:07 AM.. Reason: Spelling
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08-27-2017, 10:21 AM	#13
lukej Lieutenant 387 Rep 544 Posts Drives: 2020 M4 Comp, Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	That's why they make Neapolitan and Ice Cream flavor for everybody !! LOL __________________ 1."Luck" is an excuse for people that have failed at their mission to do something! (Allan McNish) 2. I’m not an (EXPERT) I’m just here with an opinion. So don’t hate me. (lukej)
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08-27-2017, 10:26 AM	#16
AirForceOne New Member 6 Rep 25 Posts Drives: 2015 VW GTI Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Eielson AFB, AK iTrader: (0)	https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...searchRadius=0 Here is something I saw. Something like this a reasonable deal?
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08-27-2017, 10:37 AM	#17
JSM2 New Member 12 Rep 25 Posts Drives: MG F80 ZCP Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	I love my M3. Here's some notes for you. 1. There's no BMW dealer in Fairbanks last time I checked, so if you're retiring up near Eielson AFB then a BMW might be annoying to have serviced. I'm pretty OCD about my cars, I would personally have a hard time driving my M3 there with all the frost heaves, and gravel roads / parking lots. 2. I'm guessing M3/4 CP cars aren't very common up there, but the 666 wheels really have to be seen in person to appreciate. The pictures don't do them justice. The biggest issue with these wheels is that there isn't a ton of tire options, and the OEM tires are a bit traction limited for the amount of torque the car has. (I doubt you'll find snow tires that fit the 666's.) 3. The OEM pads dust a lot, and cleaning the 666 CP wheels can be pretty time consuming. (SONAX and a pressure washer is the best way I've found). 4. "The DCT car (dual clutch trans) takes some getting use too if you have never drove one." This is very true. The DCT doesn't creep forward on its own, like a normal automatic, and some of the gear transitions can be pretty jerky. It's an awesome transmission for going fast, but I recommend some research on this if you're thinking about the DCT. M3/4 is a beautiful and fun to drive car. Good luck.
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08-27-2017, 10:40 AM	#18
AJM1125 First Lieutenant 115 Rep 343 Posts Drives: 2021 BMW M3 Competition Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: FL iTrader: (1)	The M3/M4 are both great cars. Just really depends on what purpose you need it for. Also I have a 2015 non competition package M4 before all the used 16 comp's started hitting the market. Wheels aside you do get the burbles, a few more horses, and unique suspension to the competition package. But, with a tune (Vf engineering hex tune) or similar you can get 50-80 horse power which is more than what the competition package is. Get the burbles too. You just don't get the suspension and wheels but in all you pay a less and can always upgrade the wheels to what you want. Don't get me wrong the competition package is great! I drove both non and competition package but I wouldn't let that be the deal breaker.
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08-27-2017, 10:49 AM	#19
silverstar335 Major 502 Rep 1,340 Posts Drives: G05 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NC iTrader: (4)	I would like to share my experience, that would hopefully give you yet another objective perspective. I got a 2017 F80 with the adaptive suspension and the stock 19" wheels but I dont have the Competition package. The ride quality was very good especially in Comfort and in Sport modes, Sport Plus made it a bit tighter but definitely not harsh. Couple of months into it, I decided to get the M Performance suspension and lowered the car 20mm in the front and 15mm in the rear. Keep in mind that BMW's recommended suspension settings are 20mm and 8mm respectively if I am not mistaken. I do like to point out that I also got the latest software installed at that time, for me that was 3.60.4. Ride quality did not change but the car has been much more composed and less bouncy, a noticable improvement. Then, I started looking at forged wheels and after getting a very lightweight 19" set, decided to get a 20" set. Just like you I was very concerned about the ride quality. I test drove for extended periods of time a friend of mine's M3 with the Competition Package and the ride was definitely harsh in Sport and in Sport Plus modes but not too bad in Comfort. That did not stop me from getting a set of forged 20" wheels on MPS4s, with the typical 265/30 and 295/30 staggered setup. I was extremely surprised by the improvement in ride comfort, it was completely counter intuitive, you would think bigger wheels + thinner tire sidewalls = harsher ride, definitely not the case. Actually, exactly the opposite, cant explain that. Bottom line, my perspective , a 20" set of wheels with good tires will not compromise the ride quality, at least it did not for me. I suspect it is the upgraded suspension parts of the Competition package that makes the ride noticeably different and at times harsh, not the 20" wheels. Going with 19" wheels and the Competition package may not give you the end result you are looking for. Last edited by silverstar335; 08-27-2017 at 10:57 AM..
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08-27-2017, 11:12 AM	#22
JSM2 New Member 12 Rep 25 Posts Drives: MG F80 ZCP Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Hey, Well possibly welcome to CO lol. I'm up near Boulder, but I grew up not too far from Eielson. There's lots of pretty good BMW dealers here in Colorado. Schomp BMW down in South Denver is a pretty chill, high volume dealer (both new and used), so they would be a good place to keep an eye on. Some more notes for you: I could be wrong about this (I bought mine new) but I don't think BMW normally CPO's M-cars, so keep that in mind when you're buying used, so that you make sure you have ample warranty left. Also BMW just changed how their lease system works so that's not nearly as attractive a deal as it was a year ago. Lastly don't get thrown off (discouraged) by MSRP values on the new cars, most people "in the know" are paying closer to invoice for new BMW's.
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