DCT and turbo lag - noticeable?

[CK23]

Currently I have a 2017 VW Golf R with the DSG transmission. It's very quick shifting and smooth, but probably my biggest complaint is in the turbo lag that it seemingly creates. Now, this can be mostly avoided by driving in "sport" mode as the shift points change and become more aggressive. But this is not ideal for daily driving, in and out of traffic. Essentially, in "normal" mode, you have to smash the gas pretty good triggering a downshift to get up in the RPM's for the turbo to spool up.

One difference between the Golf R and the M3 is obviously single vs. twin turbo. I'm wondering if this twin turbo setup helps with the turbo lag? With the DCT, do you find the same issue, or is it rare to non-existent?

Thanks for any feedback!

[allinon72]

Depends on your driving style. Even with the transmission in D1, I rarely experience lag in Sport or Sport+

[Lytics]

I think the VW/Audi DSG's throttle-by-wire system itself is laggy; I felt the same way as you about a 2017 A4 I drove. No such issue on my 2018 M3, thankfully. It doesn't quite feel as linear as a N/A engine of course, but the throttle is very responsive and sensitive in Sport and Sport Plus modes. Efficient mode has some noticeable lag but even there it's much less than in the A4 I drove.

[gatorfast]

I believe in the golf r switching between normal, sport, etc changes both throttle sensitivity and transmission aggressiveness. In the M3, these functions are controlled separately so you could be in D1 which is the least aggressive transmission shift setting and sport+ which is the most aggressive throttle setting.

[Super Spartan]

Let me five you an example. If the car was in comfort mode and you floor it, nothing happens for like 2-3 seconds, and then it starts moving fast. If it was in Sports or Sports+, that lag is gone.

The beauty of the DCT is upshift/downshifts are super fast and when you're in traffic just put it in auto mode and be done with it. The best of both worlds.

[Vectors2final]

Hey, I'll let you take peek at it once I take delivery.

I drive my R in manual mode, so I don't really get any of the lag... However, the TCU tune for these things is supposed to help a lot.

I will say that the M-DCT is completely different.

[IB M]

Once you drive in sport or sport plus it is hard to go back to efficient mode except for the most subdued driving / commutes.

[88silverbullet]

Originally Posted by IB M

Once you drive in sport or sport plus it is hard to go back to efficient mode except for the most subdued driving / commutes.

Absolutely true

[CanAutM3]

Drive it in manual mode. This way the downshifts are commanded by the paddles instead of the accelerator. This allows you to select the right gear before you accelerate just like you would with a manual transmission.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Drive it in manual mode. This way the downshifts are commanded by the paddles instead of the accelerator. This allows you to select the right gear before you accelerate just like you would with a manual transmission.

This. OP, put your Golf R in manual mode, and see if that doesn’t fix your “turbo lag” problem.

[OF Hero]

Originally Posted by Lytics

I think the VW/Audi DSG's throttle-by-wire system itself is laggy; I felt the same way as you about a 2017 A4 I drove. No such issue on my 2018 M3, thankfully. It doesn't quite feel as linear as a N/A engine of course, but the throttle is very responsive and sensitive in Sport and Sport Plus modes. Efficient mode has some noticeable lag but even there it's much less than in the A4 I drove.

Agree with this 100%, even coming from a V8TT Audi S6 which had some lag even in the most aggressive drive modes. The M3 is much more responsive, hell even in efficient mode it is more responsive than most other cars' similar setting. Sport/sport+ are as you would imagine.

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

This. OP, put your Golf R in manual mode, and see if that doesn’t fix your “turbo lag” problem.

I drive my Golf R in manual mode, and it does help if you keep the car in a decent gear. It all depends, really. When I'm merging, I drop my own gears and wind it out. You have to drive like an uber asshole here, or people will take advantage of you and pretty much walk all over you. The toll roads don't help that, either. My gas mileage was better with the M3 than it is the R.

The difference(kick-down) between the DSG and the DCT is that the gears drop when you hit the kick-down button in the R.

The R does take a second to build boost from a stop unless you use LC. The IS38 is a pretty decent sized turbo that only responds sooner with a tune.

[drkeng]

I'm still breaking car in, so no WOT yet.
With a good push of the pedal, I don't think there is significant lag, especially compared to my '14 435 (even w the JB+ chip).

I've found the D2 seems to be better than D1 for local driving. Haven't tried D3 yet. I think the DCT is as smooth or smoother than Steptronic in Sport Mode. That said, everyone modding regular 3/4 series cars should just go for am M3/4. Stay tuned for what I think after the winter.

Despite that it has been said that BMW recommends Comfort mode steering, I like Sport, but haven't tried S+ yet.

Haven't tried S+ on the engine or suspension yet either. Not sure I've done Sport on the suspension come to think of it.

Haven't tried MDM either.

[Wills2]

Manual mode gets the best out of DCT, using auto always gives rise to the ghosts in the machine whatever the car or gearbox.

[nathanm4]

Turbo lag is noticeable even in Sport+ mode. The lag is more noticeable when I suddenly give it full throttle. It FEELS like 0.5 - 1 sec lag.

Edit: I have a DCT.

[aBMWfan]

High Flow cats and intakes relieve turbo lag issue

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by drkeng

Despite that it has been said that BMW recommends Comfort mode steering, I like Sport, but haven't tried S+ yet.

Where did you get that BMW recommends Comfort for the steering setting ?

I gather they recommend the Sport setting since that is what they have set as the default

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by nathanm4

Turbo lag is noticeable even in Sport+ mode. The lag is more noticeable when I suddenly give it full throttle. It FEELS like 0.5 - 1 sec lag.

At what RPM ?

Because at 5000+ RPM, there is barely any lag.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by nathanm4

Turbo lag is noticeable even in Sport+ mode. The lag is more noticeable when I suddenly give it full throttle. It FEELS like 0.5 - 1 sec lag.

Edit: I have a DCT.

Do you mean lag or full boost because the power isn't linear? There's no lag, but there is non-linear power delivery.

[nathanm4]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Do you mean lag or full boost because the power isn't linear? There's no lag, but there is non-linear power delivery.

I meant turbo lag (maybe i was talking about full boost.). After a short moment, the turbos kick in.

Edit: It’s what I’m experiencing and the car has no problem.

[FlyingLow78]

The M3/M4 was specifically designed with two smaller turbos, rather than one large one, because small turbos spool more quickly. There is (or was) a demonstration of this at the BMW Welt...it's basically a large wheel you can spin by hand and a smaller one that is much easier to spin due to the reduced rotating mass.

In the real world, I have boost on before 2000 RPM, so I don't have any lag in D1/S2.

[CK23]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I believe in the golf r switching between normal, sport, etc changes both throttle sensitivity and transmission aggressiveness. In the M3, these functions are controlled separately so you could be in D1 which is the least aggressive transmission shift setting and sport+ which is the most aggressive throttle setting.

Makes sense regarding the throttle sensitivity, that could be a factor for sure.

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

The beauty of the DCT is upshift/downshifts are super fast and when you're in traffic just put it in auto mode and be done with it. The best of both worlds.

Yes, the DSG is also very quick shifting as well, no complaints there.

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

Hey, I'll let you take peek at it once I take delivery.

I drive my R in manual mode, so I don't really get any of the lag... However, the TCU tune for these things is supposed to help a lot.

I will say that the M-DCT is completely different.

Sounds good, looking forward to it. I've driven both DCT and MT as well from the dealership, but would be nice to get a little more time in the car.

I've just never been that big of a fan of driving the DSG in manual mode. I completely get the rationale and the performance (lack of lag) is diminished while doing this. I do like sport mode, but sometimes feel that the car holds the gear longer than I would prefer, LOL. And yes, I've heard that the TCU tune helps as well, but don't plan on putting more $ into the car if I'm going to part with it in lieu of an M3 sometime in the next year.

Originally Posted by IB M

Once you drive in sport or sport plus it is hard to go back to efficient mode except for the most subdued driving / commutes.

I agree with this. This is the case even in the Golf R.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

This. OP, put your Golf R in manual mode, and see if that doesn’t fix your “turbo lag” problem.

Not a huge fan of manual mode, but yes, it does help as I can keep the RPM's up, thus keeping the turbo spooled.

Originally Posted by Wills2

Manual mode gets the best out of DCT, using auto always gives rise to the ghosts in the machine whatever the car or gearbox.

Yeah, think so too.

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

The M3/M4 was specifically designed with two smaller turbos, rather than one large one, because small turbos spool more quickly. There is (or was) a demonstration of this at the BMW Welt...it's basically a large wheel you can spin by hand and a smaller one that is much easier to spin due to the reduced rotating mass.

In the real world, I have boost on before 2000 RPM, so I don't have any lag in D1/S2.

That makes sense, and is kind of what I was thinking, and actually hoping to hear. Hence, the Golf R with a single larger turbo takes a sec or two to spool up and create boost that you can actually feel.