From Porsche Cayman S to E90 M3 6MT - My Experience With the New M3

[urbo73]

I picked up my new '08 E90 M3 6MT yesterday morning. Silver/Black with ALL packages and options and quite a good deal.

I had been driving a Porsche Cayman S for the last 2 years, and the lease ended. I loved the Cayman S, but I needed a 4 door since I have a 14 month son now, and driving my wife's Acura RDX is not fun for me).

I had owned/driven BMWs in the past (530i and 330xi), so I was somewhat familiar with the iDrive, controls, layout, etc. And quite frankly, I don't care for Audis, so the M3 sedan was the only choice for me - a car to satisfy both my sports car need and family needs.

That being said, here are my initial impressions (which undoubtedly are going to change over time as I get more used to and familiar with the car).

Some notes:

1. I love manual transmission cars, so the 6MT was the only option for me. That being said, I was a bit surprised to see how notchy and "stubborn" the shifter can be. Putting into 1st gear sometimes feels like I'm fighting the stick - a lot of effort and unpleasant mechanical noise (feels like I'm about to break it!). Sometimes I'll do it twice just to make sure when I engage the clutch it's really in 1st and not going to grind. The 2nd time it's always smoother and feels precise. The first time, it's like a fight! The 1st to 2nd shift is also notchy and seems harsh. Again, I can hear parts moving and it just doesn't feel smooth to say the least. I hope this will get better with break-in time. Perhaps I got spoiled with the Cayman S, where the tranny was smooth and precise from day 1.

2. The tranny really vibrates, and you can really feel the engine through it! Of course this is a V8, so it's more apparent. I just don't remember this at all on the Porsche or my previous non-M BMWs. It's like a beast! Is this normal?

3. The cockpit gets pretty hot! It was 50 outside last night, and I had the windows down to cool

4. I tried playing with the different EDC modes, and here's my impression thus far. Comfort is great for when I'm not driving alone - the family times. Normal is normal I guess, and sport is close to what the Cayman S felt like.

5. I played a bit with the Power mode, and left it on normal until I can get my shifting, gas/clutch balancing better. I can see it useful at the track - the more agressive throttle response of Sport and Sport+.

6. Perhaps I haven't driven it enough yet to tell the difference between the Servotronic Normal and Sport modes. Is there a clear way to tell - that is very obvious? I also couldn't find too much documentation on this and how exactly it's supposed to work/feel.

7. I got used to the clutch fairly fast - the test car's clutch was too light. This one is better, but still not as good (IMO) as far as feel as the Cayman's. But that's neither here nor there. Just another clutch to get used to

8. I found I can creep along in traffic in 2nd gear quite easily w/o boggin the engine - seems like it has sufficient torque, even if it may not feel like it on a 0-60 launch. I was expecting a bit more torque off the line, but it seems fine.

9. I love the engine sound! I love the seats and everything else.

So these are my initial impressions. Overall, very happy. Some things stood out, and I hope that my car is working as expected and it's just a matter of break-in time before the tranny gets smoother and more precise. That's the big one for me.

I'd love to hear some comments on the points I made. This is not Porsche vs. BMW at all - just my impressions.

[nullspace]

My '09 E92 is in production now, and it will replace my Boxster S. In my few test drives with the M3, I noticed some of the same things with the transmission and clutch as compared to my Porsche. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but I have to say that I prefer the Porsche transmission and clutch in most areas apart from clutch effort. My Boxster has always had a very stiff clutch pedal.

[MVEED3]

1. Instead of fighting the lever on the first attempt, try this: If you feel increased resistance when trying to go into 1st or R, don't fight it in. Just clutch out and clutch back in again before sliding her in.

2. Don't rest your hand on the shifter while it's in gear. This is known to wear the syncros. If your hand isn't on it, you won't notice the vibration.

3. I agree, this cabin does get hot and stays hot. It takes an outside temp of 55 degrees F to be comfortable with windows up and no AC.

7. My clutch is light. I'll have to drive others to see where my car stands. I do love the engagement. It feels like there's already a LTW flyweel.

8. Love the torque, especially compounded with the throttle response.

9. Likewise. I'm loving everything especially the chassis!

Tranny will get better over time. I was actually torn between a used 997S and the M3. I'm happy.

Enjoy her.


Allen

[jamesisel]

congrats on the new car and I hope you enjoy!!

[man02195]

The trick to putting the car into 1st gear is to put it into 2nd, then move to 1st, works every time.

[flyinbrian]

Right after my break in period I went and did about 20-25 laps at a local track and the car has been great ever since. It seems that the track day helped everything break in and the tranny feels better and the car gets better milage now. So there is definately some break in time on these cars where things loosen up.

[SS32]

+1 on that ^. After you get it broken in, beat the shit out of it and it will get a lot smoother. I actually considered a Cayman S instead of the M because I didn't want to wait, but I'm glad I chose the M.

[TLud]

OP, I recently drove the Cayman S for a few hours and I can see where you're coming from on several of your points.

1. Some of the resistence you're experiencing in shifting the tranny is probably partly from it not being fully warmed up and partly from it not being broken in yet. It'll never be as nice as the Cayman shifter, but it will definitely get better.

2. A lot more engine vibration will transfer through the tranny with the V8 engine than with a horizontally opposed boxer setup. Also, the shifter in the Cayman is a lot more stiff and weighted, so it will dampen the engine vibrations much better.

3. Isn't this what A/C is for? Call me crazy, but I can't drive any car with the windows rolled up and no A/C unless the temperature outside is close to freezing.

6. I much preferred the steering weight in the Cayman, but until I pick up my car on Saturday, I haven't had much opportunity to play around with the Sport versus Normal steering modes.

7. Living in a large city with lots of traffic, I appreciate the lighter clutch in the M3.

[kronzprinz]

2nd gear synchronizes the rest... always shift into 2nd then into 1st if you're having to "fight it"

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by MVEED3

1. Instead of fighting the lever on the first attempt, try this: If you feel increased resistance when trying to go into 1st or R, don't fight it in. Just clutch out and clutch back in again before sliding her in.

2. Don't rest your hand on the shifter while it's in gear. This is known to wear the syncros. If your hand isn't on it, you won't notice the vibration.

Enjoy her.

Allen

1. Right, that is exactly what I do, but to do this or go into 2nd first seems kinds of bizarre. I hope this is just until the tranny breaks in. Otherwise not very good...

2. I don't rest my hand on it. I can *see* it! Or just feel it by touching it.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by man02195

The trick to putting the car into 1st gear is to put it into 2nd, then move to 1st, works every time.

As I said in my post above, this will work, but seems like some workaround, not a real solution. One should be able to shift into 1st gear from N w/o going into 2nd or double clutching!

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by TLud

3. Isn't this what A/C is for? Call me crazy, but I can't drive any car with the windows rolled up and no A/C unless the temperature outside is close to freezing.

Right, but in any other car so far, driving with climate on 67/68 on AUTO, windows up, it felt good! In the M3 it's hot! I opened the windows to cool w/o going to AUTO 55! I'm just saying the engine must be producing a lot of heat!

[Deda]

congrats!

[itofigari]

Originally Posted by urbo73

I picked up my new '08 E90 M3 6MT yesterday morning. Silver/Black with ALL packages and options and quite a good deal.

I had been driving a Porsche Cayman S for the last 2 years, and the lease ended. I loved the Cayman S, but I needed a 4 door since I have a 14 month son now, and driving my wife's Acura RDX is not fun for me).

I had owned/driven BMWs in the past (530i and 330xi), so I was somewhat familiar with the iDrive, controls, layout, etc. And quite frankly, I don't care for Audis, so the M3 sedan was the only choice for me - a car to satisfy both my sports car need and family needs.

That being said, here are my initial impressions (which undoubtedly are going to change over time as I get more used to and familiar with the car).

Some notes:

1. I love manual transmission cars, so the 6MT was the only option for me. That being said, I was a bit surprised to see how notchy and "stubborn" the shifter can be. Putting into 1st gear sometimes feels like I'm fighting the stick - a lot of effort and unpleasant mechanical noise (feels like I'm about to break it!). Sometimes I'll do it twice just to make sure when I engage the clutch it's really in 1st and not going to grind. The 2nd time it's always smoother and feels precise. The first time, it's like a fight! The 1st to 2nd shift is also notchy and seems harsh. Again, I can hear parts moving and it just doesn't feel smooth to say the least. I hope this will get better with break-in time. Perhaps I got spoiled with the Cayman S, where the tranny was smooth and precise from day 1.

2. The tranny really vibrates, and you can really feel the engine through it! Of course this is a V8, so it's more apparent. I just don't remember this at all on the Porsche or my previous non-M BMWs. It's like a beast! Is this normal?

3. The cockpit gets pretty hot! It was 50 outside last night, and I had the windows down to cool

4. I tried playing with the different EDC modes, and here's my impression thus far. Comfort is great for when I'm not driving alone - the family times. Normal is normal I guess, and sport is close to what the Cayman S felt like.

5. I played a bit with the Power mode, and left it on normal until I can get my shifting, gas/clutch balancing better. I can see it useful at the track - the more agressive throttle response of Sport and Sport+.

6. Perhaps I haven't driven it enough yet to tell the difference between the Servotronic Normal and Sport modes. Is there a clear way to tell - that is very obvious? I also couldn't find too much documentation on this and how exactly it's supposed to work/feel.

7. I got used to the clutch fairly fast - the test car's clutch was too light. This one is better, but still not as good (IMO) as far as feel as the Cayman's. But that's neither here nor there. Just another clutch to get used to

8. I found I can creep along in traffic in 2nd gear quite easily w/o boggin the engine - seems like it has sufficient torque, even if it may not feel like it on a 0-60 launch. I was expecting a bit more torque off the line, but it seems fine.

9. I love the engine sound! I love the seats and everything else.

So these are my initial impressions. Overall, very happy. Some things stood out, and I hope that my car is working as expected and it's just a matter of break-in time before the tranny gets smoother and more precise. That's the big one for me.

I'd love to hear some comments on the points I made. This is not Porsche vs. BMW at all - just my impressions.

Hey man,
I currently own a Cayman S and it seems I will take delivery of a E90 M3 on Tuesday! ...I was going to order a 2009 but COULD NOT turn down a deal offered by the dealer of 0.9% interest and good price for the car. Anyhow, I completely love my Cayman S. It came from the factory with a short shifter and I am now running on H&R sport coilovers and GT3 RS exhaust therefore before I tested the new M3 I was preparing myself not to be discouraged by the feel I thought I would get from the M3 sedan (somehow heavy car ). I have tracked my Cayman S in Homestead, Sebring and now in TWS an Harris Hill Road in Austin and must say I was not disappointed at all on the M3. Yes, I think the transmission from the M3 feels a bit "gummy" but I think with the upcoming short shifter from Dinan this could feel much better. As far as the clutch goes (thanks to this site) I found that you can remove a spring that makes the clutch to be softer at the end! This , as I have been reading, changes things completely when it comes to the feel of the pedal.
other upgrades I am planning for the M3 are coilovers, exhaust, intake and possibly brake upgrades so when I take it to the track, I will be trying to beat times between both cars. I decided to keep the Cayman S for the track and drive the M3 everyday (specially now that I am about to have a new baby in a few days...!)
Will keep you posted on upgrades and other impressions.
Good luck and congrats on your car...awesome machines.

[Ramphaus]

1) There were so many threads/posts on the "notchiness" that I read when I first took delivery. I too was concerned about the "effort" required to put into 1st. At first I was pulling off in 2nd because it was too frustrating. Everyone said that it got better as it broke-in. I didn't think that I would believe them, but now, after 8500 miles, they were right. The transitions are way better than they used to be. I still sometimes have the "fight" into 1st, but even that has been getting a lot better over time.

2) It was CS or M3 for me too. I chose the M3 because the 2008 CS wasn't going to have DFI, no diff, and general long-trip comfort. 6 months later, I LOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE MY CARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and my wife thinks I'm crazy).

[consolidated]

My Cayman S cabin runs really hot. The motor is right behind you and there's not much insulation, the engine compartment isn't exactly in the airstream. The top of the engine cover area, behind the seats and especially the center tunnel are all very warm to the touch after a good thrashing. Did you adjust the hot/cold fresh air thingy?

[urbo73]

Ha - all the Caymans coming out of the woods! My Cayman ran hot only at the track. In fact with the stock Cayman S brakes, after 2 flying laps at NHIS, the ABS sensors started to go crazy (I brake really late and hard - from open wheel racing times when I was younger). I didn't know what the hell was going on. I realized the fluid was boiling and sending air bubbles to the brake lines! I realized then and there that you can't really push any car that hard - any street car that is.

The M3 gets hot in the front - from the engine of course. And it makes sense. Not a big deal at all - just an observation.

It's funny - I'm still getting used to the M3. At times it feels faster and other times not. The Cayman was so light and agile it seems, and I got used to that. The M3 is heavy, and even with the larger engine and more HP, it doesn't lose that heaviness to me. But hey, it's a great car. More comfortable for sure. I set EDC to max SPORT because I'm used to that feel. Still playing around with the POWER option and SERVOTRONIC.

I'll have to see if I can drive it in the winter with the stock tires - I did that with the Cayman for 2 winters (and it had the same Michelin Pilot Sports - same exact tire) and managed to be gentle with it. I may set the POWER to NORMAL for winter driving and see.

Oh and BTW, my wife thinks I'm a lunatic as well, but she still loves me. Both cars are super crazy for her to ride in. With her and my son now, I'll take it easy

[Robert]

I am surprised that you M3 owners complain about cabin heat as well. Interior of my 135i is hot at night with ambient temp around 60F and the HACV set to 60F(lowest). My remedy is to open the moonroof and set the heater to high, which works really well. BMW is smart enough to blast the heat from foot well and since hot air rises it warms you gently instead of suffocating your face with warm air.

[urbo73]

And "rubbery" IS a good adjective to describe the M3 shifter. It feels too flexible - that sort of thing. Sometimes it like springs/snaps back when going out of gear to N. The whole car is SO solid, the shifter doesn't do it justice. Still, I'm used to it now and it's only been 36 hours since I took delivery (and I've also been working and sleeping!).

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by bobbo

I am surprised that you M3 owners complain about cabin heat as well. Interior of my 135i is hot at night with ambient temp around 60F and the HACV set to 60F(lowest). My remedy is to open the moonroof and set the heater to high, which works really well. BMW is smart enough to blast the heat from foot well and since hot air rises it warms you gently instead of suffocating your face with warm air.

Hey, up here in Boston, the cabin heat is welcomed! I'm afraid of the summer! Also BMWs IS smart, because hot air in your face will tire you and make you a sleepy driver - dangerous.

[Jack's dad]

I have had my M3 Sedan for seven months after a couple of years in a Cayman S. I loved the CS but prefer the M3 and have no regrets. With respect to the transmission, mine has loosened up a fair amount, but was never as bad as you are describing - perhaps yours needs adjustment or repair. Overall I do think the CS gearbox is better, but for me the difference has not been as significant as your experience indicates...

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by itofigari

Hey man,
I currently own a Cayman S and it seems I will take delivery of a E90 M3 on Tuesday! ...I was going to order a 2009 but COULD NOT turn down a deal offered by the dealer of 0.9% interest and good price for the car. Anyhow, I completely love my Cayman S. It came from the factory with a short shifter and I am now running on H&R sport coilovers and GT3 RS exhaust therefore before I tested the new M3 I was preparing myself not to be discouraged by the feel I thought I would get from the M3 sedan (somehow heavy car ). I have tracked my Cayman S in Homestead, Sebring and now in TWS an Harris Hill Road in Austin and must say I was not disappointed at all on the M3. Yes, I think the transmission from the M3 feels a bit "gummy" but I think with the upcoming short shifter from Dinan this could feel much better. As far as the clutch goes (thanks to this site) I found that you can remove a spring that makes the clutch to be softer at the end! This , as I have been reading, changes things completely when it comes to the feel of the pedal.
other upgrades I am planning for the M3 are coilovers, exhaust, intake and possibly brake upgrades so when I take it to the track, I will be trying to beat times between both cars. I decided to keep the Cayman S for the track and drive the M3 everyday (specially now that I am about to have a new baby in a few days...!)
Will keep you posted on upgrades and other impressions.
Good luck and congrats on your car...awesome machines.

Nice parallel story! Congrats on the baby (the human one on the way that is!). Do you have a link to that clutch mod you mention? I thought maybe it was the CDV, but read the M3 doesn't have one.