question about performance

[2008bimmerM3]

As a comparison to the old M3, the new M3 weights 289 lbs more, has 414 HP at 8300 rpm versus 333 HP at 7900 RPM, torque is at 295 versus 262.

I've never driven the old M3, but from the specs it seems that the new M3 isn't that much faster than the old one, granted it has more HP but the torque isn't that much more, and the car weights 289lbs more.

What is everyone's opinion on this? I'm interested in everyone's insight. I'm not tech guru, but judging from those numbers, that's what I'm thinking.

[KonigsTiger]

No, new M3 isn't that much faster than the old M3 but it will outrun the old one w/o any problems. The power in the new engine has an elongated power curve (so it delievers more power for more time) and there is also slightly less drive train loss. At the end of the day, as I said, it is faster. Top speed is also much higher when delimited.

[yemenmocha]

It's also more versatile, especially with the 4-door model.

Everything above is regarding coupe/sedan models. The convertible is another story, weighing 133 lbs. more than the current M5.

[swamp2]

Performance is more a function of power to weight than anything else. The E92 M3 has about 15% higher power to weight ratio. That also means the E46 would need about +50 hp to keep up. It is significant.

[e46e92love]

I completely disagree with everyone on this thread. The new M3 is much faster than the old one. When the various magazines and testers got a hold of the old M3 many of them got 0-60 times as low as 4.7-4.8, even though for much of the e46 M3s life span the BMW website reported the 0-60 as 5+ secs. They do that because the testers are much better at driving and can't always reproduce their results consistently. The quickest M3 has been recorded many times at being as low as 4.3 or so, with M-DCT being estimated at 4.1-4.2. Half a second or so may not seem like much, but in the world of cars, its an eternity.

Cheers,
e46e92

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I completely disagree with everyone on this thread. The new M3 is much faster than the old one. When the various magazines and testers got a hold of the old M3 many of them got 0-60 times as low as 4.7-4.8, even though for much of the e46 M3s life span the BMW website reported the 0-60 as 5+ secs. They do that because the testers are much better at driving and can't always reproduce their results consistently. The quickest M3 has been recorded many times at being as low as 4.3 or so, with M-DCT being estimated at 4.1-4.2. Half a second or so may not seem like much, but in the world of cars, its an eternity.

Cheers,
e46e92

The test conditions that got 4.1 0-60 for the new M3 would have probably gotten 4.5 to 4.6 for the old one. That is to say, everything else equal, the new M3 is about .3 seconds faster most of the time. The difference really IMO is at higher speeds where I think the new M3 is noticeably fater since it has much higher hp.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

The test conditions that got 4.1 0-60 for the new M3 would have probably gotten 4.5 to 4.6 for the old one. That is to say, everything else equal, the new M3 is about .3 seconds faster most of the time. The difference really IMO is at higher speeds where I think the new M3 is noticeably fater since it has much higher hp.

I'll put any amount of money that a stock e92 M3 would spank a stock e46 M3 assuming both had drivers of equal talent and equal tires on both cars, both in a drag race and on the track. Just my .02

[2008bimmerM3]

I wouldn't say it would spank it, off the line they are pretty even, up until you hit about 50-60 mph is when the new M3 starts to pull away. search for the E46 M3 CSL race against the E92 M3 on youtube and you'll see.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I'll put any amount of money that a stock e92 M3 would spank a stock e46 M3 assuming both had drivers of equal talent and equal tires on both cars, both in a drag race and on the track. Just my .02

I did't say otherwise!!!!!!!! I just said that the difference is likely to be around 0.3 seconds 0 - 60 that´s all!!!

[Ronin13]

e46 vs. e9x M3 discussions are almost as heated as the 335 comparisons. Sport Auto Ring times from the "more performance figures" thread are below. The CSL is a beast, but the e92 separates itself well from the standard e46.

• 8:05 BMW E92 M3 UHP M (12/07)
• 8:22 BMW E46 M3
• 8:26 BMW 335i

[J08M3]

Don't forget the e92 is not only faster but far more luxurious, at least in my opinion.

[2008bimmerM3]

the E92 does feel like the engine doesn't have to work as hard for the power.

[MomoM3]

Originally Posted by 2008bimmerM3

the E92 does feel like the engine doesn't have to work as hard for the power.

having owned both, I agree with this statement.

the e46 is extremely capable when pushed to its limits. however, the e92 is equally as fast when driven normally. if you push the e92 to its limits though, it's an absolute beast.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

I did't say otherwise!!!!!!!! I just said that the difference is likely to be around 0.3 seconds 0 - 60 that´s all!!!

I know, I wasn't trying to come off as angry, just passionate Sorry if you felt like I was jumping all over you

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I know, I wasn't trying to come off as angry, just passionate Sorry if you felt like I was jumping all over you

No problem at all!!!

[3XTR3M3]

I miss My E46 Competition Package like, a lot.

I owned both at the same time, a 2006 E46 comp. pack and a E92 M3, for about 2 months. I ran both cars against each other and its a tight run, especially in the beginning. Over 100 is a a different story.

The E92 dosnt work as hard to speed up which is cool but then again its not as exciting. I loved the E46, total screamer.

Sometimes I also feel like e46 was way more of a purist/enthusiast car. It was rough, it was more of a machine then a fine tuned/compromised E92 is. (maybe cus it was a competition pack)

The Inline Six - I think we had something very special with the I6 in the M3. It was a special engine. A lot of sports cars run high hp V8s... but no one has anything close to the I6 and the I6 was still kicking V8 ass all over the place. Its true, the new V8 is a special engine as well... 8400rpm, awesome power curves, etc. But its not as special as the I6.

The E92 is my 3rd M3 and first V8 ever. I have to admit, when I was buying the E92 I had all this is mind but did it in faith cus BMW hasnt failed me. With that said, I dont feel as tho I own or drive as special of a car as I did with my E36 and E46 M3s

At the end of the day, I decided to keep the E92 and get rid of the E46

[ihyln]

My best friend has a 2005 E46 with the competition package. I'd say the rear is improved with the E9X (I prefer E90) but the front of the E46 is hands down still the best.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by 2008bimmerM3

the E92 does feel like the engine doesn't have to work as hard for the power.

Spot on IMHO

It does feel the E9X M3 engine has a lot off reserve power in it.....................

I did own the E46 M3 and now the E92 M3, above statement is the best way to discribe the difference..............

[2008bimmerM3]

what was the sticker price on a new e46 with competition package?

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by 2008bimmerM3

what was the sticker price on a new e46 with competition package?

As far as I remember it was around 67K. At the end of the 2 year lease, the buyout was around 54k. They gave me a loyalty discount etc. and dropped it down to 48 i believe.

I planned on keeping both the E46 and the E92 but there was a slight change in circumstances and I could only keep one. So I stuck with the E92


edit: sry, the comp pack M3 was closer to 70

[ersin]

Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3

...

The E92 dosnt work as hard to speed up which is cool but then again its not as exciting. I loved the E46, total screamer.

Sometimes I also feel like e46 was way more of a purist/enthusiast car. It was rough, it was more of a machine then a fine tuned/compromised E92 is. (maybe cus it was a competition pack)

Agree, even for the stock (non-comp) E46 M3. But I think that's what BMW was going for with the E9x M3 -- more refined.

Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3

The Inline Six - I think we had something very special with the I6 in the M3. It was a special engine. A lot of sports cars run high hp V8s... but no one has anything close to the I6 and the I6 was still kicking V8 ass all over the place. Its true, the new V8 is a special engine as well... 8400rpm, awesome power curves, etc. But its not as special as the I6.

The E92 is my 3rd M3 and first V8 ever. I have to admit, when I was buying the E92 I had all this is mind but did it in faith cus BMW hasnt failed me. With that said, I dont feel as tho I own or drive as special of a car as I did with my E36 and E46 M3s

At the end of the day, I decided to keep the E92 and get rid of the E46

The S54 was certainly special and so is the S65. But, I can't really say that one is more special than the other. The V8 has more technology in it (e.g. the I6 used a couple of mics to monitor knock, whereas the V8 monitors the current in the spark plug wires to all the cylinders for the same thing) but in its day the I6 was just as much at the leading edge. One thing is for sure, even though I pretty much liked to hear the "rasp" of the S54 (unlike many others), the music from the V8 exhaust is pure jazz.

One reason that torque is not as good an indicator of performance is that you only get one torque value which is at the RPM where it is maximum. Peak torque in the V8 doesn't seem as impressive over the I6, but you have to look at the shape of the torque curve. The V8 curve is flatter than the I6 and produces more torque through-out the rev range (especially in proportion to the I6). This also explains why the new car doesn't seem as raw as the E46 (and why it seems like it has less "punch" than a 335). The power comes on more smoothly in the E92 M3 than in any other car I've driven. (Caveat: I have owned an E46 M3 but (so far) have only test driven the new M3 once.)

Some will tell you that they would have more fun with a "peakier" engine under the hood. But the flat torque can give a driver better control if he knows how to drive well. Plus the new M3 has even better suspension than the old (that's a real feat since the E46 M3 was one of the best) and so gets better times around a track with curves. It performs better, no doubt about it. But for fun, I think it might just be one of those things that grow on you and I would bet that the new M3 will endear itself to owners in more ways than the old one did. Unquestionably, the GT-R beats the M3 in pretty much all of the performance categories, yet some of the few who have had the privilege of driving both say the the M3 is the more fun to drive car.

Performance-wise the new M3 is better in every category. Now, add in the fact that the E9x M3 is bigger (more practical), more comfortable, more luxurious, and better built (IMHO) than the E46 M3 (and GT-R too) and you have a winner in my opinion. When you adjust for inflation the new M3 is just slightly more expensive than the old (in the US) and that's not counting the 4 years free maintenance.

I realize some people want the "rawness" of the older M3s. That's cool. The good thing is that you can get one "pre-owned" pretty cheap and it's still a great car. The E9x M3 is a different car than the E46 and probably appeals to a slightly different sort of person. As did the E46 M3 with the E36 M3 and the E30 M3. There is no doubt in my mind that all of these models will be remembered as very special cars.