Engine stuttering during startup

Art · 07-12-2011, 12:11 AM

Hi guys,

Started about 3 months ago, I noticed a weird engine stuttering problem during startup. It's best explained with a video, as you can see below, I pressed the startup button at 0:05, and the engine struggled to start, but really didn't fully kick in until around 0:13, a full 8 seconds later. This only happens during cold startup in the morning, and seems to get worse the longer the car sits. The video was shot on Monday, which takes around 8 seconds after sitting for the weekends, on Tuesdays through Fridays, it's a bit shorter at around 5 seconds.

Any advises appreciated.

Trevor .:R · 07-12-2011, 01:24 AM

That does not seem good. and the temp is around 68 so it is not terribly cold.

Blk07335i · 07-12-2011, 01:26 AM

Check the battery...

Seattle S65B40 · 07-12-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blk07335i

Check the battery...

Plus one. The longer mine sits the quicker (and louder) it seems to roar to life. Will videotape a 7 day cold start tonight.

elm3 · 07-12-2011, 10:25 AM

OP might be having ignition problems? Usually when a car stutters, a bad plug wire or plugs, in my experience. I would check the electrical stuff on it. Deff. take it to the dealer, as it can be replicated and they can run the computer to see if the ECU has any faults saved.

mdosu · 07-12-2011, 10:42 AM

does the idle drop after the start up, or is the idle smooth once after this issue.

JCtx · 07-12-2011, 10:57 AM

Bad idle valve for starters. Once engine starts, revs shouldn't dip, like your engine did twice. However, I've never seen an engine struggle so much to start, even with a bad idle valve

, so you could have 2nd issue. Normally I'd advice you to wait until you get the 'christmas tree' of lights since most dealers won't touch the car without codes, but that amount of cranking is just not right. But one thing I'd do before anything else is to fully charge the battery and see if it goes away. It's rare to have an issue (idle valve, bad spark plug, etc) that causes such a long cranking and no CEL, low battery warning, etc. Hopefully recharging the battery will lower your cranking times so you could wait for a CEL before wasting your time with a dealer.

By the way, what year is your car? I see you have 27K+ miles. If an '08, you're way overdue for a new idle valve

. Good luck man, and keep us posted.

Krozi · 07-12-2011, 11:09 AM

I call bad idle control valve.

mdosu · 07-12-2011, 11:18 AM

it's a idle air control valve issue when his idle dips or over time he can't hold the idle. Hence that's why I asked if his idle dips, or is it strong after the initial startup.

Art · 07-12-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

Plus one. The longer mine sits the quicker (and louder) it seems to roar to life. Will videotape a 7 day cold start tonight.

Thanks. Battery was the first thing I suspected as well. I made sure it's fully charged over the weekend but the problem still shows up on Monday.

This also seems to only happen after sitting overnight, as the car starts up okay when I go home at night after parked at work for 8~9 hours. If it's a weak battery, I would experience this everytime, no?

Art · 07-12-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Bad idle valve for starters. Once engine starts, revs shouldn't dip, like your engine did twice. However, I've never seen an engine struggle so much to start, even with a bad idle valve

, so you could have 2nd issue. Normally I'd advice you to wait until you get the 'christmas tree' of lights since most dealers won't touch the car without codes, but that amount of cranking is just not right. But one thing I'd do before anything else is to fully charge the battery and see if it goes away. It's rare to have an issue (idle valve, bad spark plug, etc) that causes such a long cranking and no CEL, low battery warning, etc. Hopefully recharging the battery will lower your cranking times so you could wait for a CEL before wasting your time with a dealer.

Thanks.

When this happens, idle does stay rough a bit, but after around 7 to 10 seconds or so, it does keep a pretty good smooth idle after that. If it's indeed an idle valve issue, I assume I would never go back to a smooth idle even after 10 seconds? The engine also feels the same smoothness when driving, that's why so far I've not suspecting it to be bad spark plugs yet.

Quote:

By the way, what year is your car? I see you have 27K+ miles. If an '08, you're way overdue for a new idle valve

. Good luck man, and keep us posted.

It's an '08, and no, the idle valve has not been changed yet.

Krozi · 07-12-2011, 12:55 PM

32K miles and no idle control valve! Cause I drive my car like a fuckin MAN. lol

Art · 07-12-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdosu

it's a idle air control valve issue when his idle dips or over time he can't hold the idle. Hence that's why I asked if his idle dips, or is it strong after the initial startup.

Thanks.

If it's indeed the IAC, should I not be able to hold the idle at all even after it warms up after a few seconds?

JCtx · 07-12-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

When this happens, idle does stay rough a bit, but after around 7 to 10 seconds or so, it does keep a pretty good smooth idle after that.

That's how it starts to go south. You should be greeted with the 'christmas tree' soon. And when you eventually do, you can still usually reset them a couple of times with an ignition cycle, so you know. After that, warnings won't go away until replaced. I'd like to know exactly what goes wrong with that darn thing, but nobody knows

. Good luck.

rwchrist · 12-04-2011, 08:57 PM

I am having the same issues. Started with the flux & dealer replaced the idle valve. That didn't fix it, but had me take it home & run BMW fuel additive in it. Did this for 1/2 a tank & then I said they had to take it back cuz every time the car sits for 4 hours or so, it cranks for 8-10 seconds...then stumbles, sometimes worse than before. They took it back for a week & said it's probably bad gas. I always use the same shell gas station & highest octain. They said use lower octain cuz maybe the higher octain is older gas & causing the starting problems.

So, I have the car back & have filled it with lower octain. Any other thoughts?

Jun 09 build with with 16k mls.

Thanks
REG

Ateam · 12-04-2011, 09:13 PM

That is the laziest fix I have ever heard from a dealer and no offense but you really just took that advice? Clearly its not a bad gas issue! Cars do not crank for 10 seconds because of bad gas! A car may run more roughly or idle roughly but it aint going to cause a long crank. Dealer at its worst there

Gumulri · 12-04-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blk07335i

Check the battery...

+1

BPMSport · 12-05-2011, 02:19 AM

Does not seem to be the battery to me at all..

Check the voltage of course, make sure you have atleast 12V with the car off, 14+ on.

Has to be an issue with a crank or cam position sensor, or an issue with fuel delivery or ignition.

Car turns over strong, it's just not firing up as it should.

bgary22 · 02-07-2018, 05:00 PM

Hi Art

Eventually what's the cause you found for the engine stuttering issue?
I got similar issue just recently.

Thanks.

07-12-2011, 12:11 AM	#1
Art Private 7 Rep 59 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	Engine stuttering during startup Hi guys, Started about 3 months ago, I noticed a weird engine stuttering problem during startup. It's best explained with a video, as you can see below, I pressed the startup button at 0:05, and the engine struggled to start, but really didn't fully kick in until around 0:13, a full 8 seconds later. This only happens during cold startup in the morning, and seems to get worse the longer the car sits. The video was shot on Monday, which takes around 8 seconds after sitting for the weekends, on Tuesdays through Fridays, it's a bit shorter at around 5 seconds. Any advises appreciated.
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07-12-2011, 01:24 AM	#2
Trevor .:R Captain 65 Rep 699 Posts Drives: 13 ZCP DCT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Thousand Oaks/Camarillo/Westlake iTrader: (1) Garage List 11 M3 [10.00]	That does not seem good. and the temp is around 68 so it is not terribly cold. __________________ Current: 2013 E92 M3 AW DCT Past: 2011 E90 M3 AW DCT, 2011 E92 M3 MR 6MT, 2008 E92 M3 AW 6MT
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07-12-2011, 01:26 AM	#3
Blk07335i Captain 61 Rep 939 Posts Drives: 2024 G87 M2 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston area iTrader: (4)	Check the battery...
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07-12-2011, 10:25 AM	#5
elm3 ///M Fan 366 Rep 2,159 Posts Drives: '09 E92 M3 IB/'17 f85 X5M LBB Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canton, GA. iTrader: (1) Garage List 2017 BMW / X5M [9.00] 2009 E92 M3 [10.00] 2004 Yamaha R1 [10.00]	OP might be having ignition problems? Usually when a car stutters, a bad plug wire or plugs, in my experience. I would check the electrical stuff on it. Deff. take it to the dealer, as it can be replicated and they can run the computer to see if the ECU has any faults saved. __________________ '09 E92 ///M3 Interlagos Blue,6MT,Silver Novillo Leather,CF Trim,Premium Package,Technology Package,Cold Weather Package,Premium Sound,19"Wheels,Moonroof-Toy/'17 X5M, Long Beach Blue, Executive Package,Technology Package, Lighting Package, Driver Assist, Full Mughello Red Interior, 21" wheels-Toy/'14 535i with M Sport and 19" wheels-Daily
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07-12-2011, 10:42 AM	#6
mdosu Banned 314 Rep 8,496 Posts Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (6)	does the idle drop after the start up, or is the idle smooth once after this issue.
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07-12-2011, 10:57 AM	#7
JCtx Major General 258 Rep 5,012 Posts Drives: No BMW yet Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso TX iTrader: (0)	Bad idle valve for starters. Once engine starts, revs shouldn't dip, like your engine did twice. However, I've never seen an engine struggle so much to start, even with a bad idle valve , so you could have 2nd issue. Normally I'd advice you to wait until you get the 'christmas tree' of lights since most dealers won't touch the car without codes, but that amount of cranking is just not right. But one thing I'd do before anything else is to fully charge the battery and see if it goes away. It's rare to have an issue (idle valve, bad spark plug, etc) that causes such a long cranking and no CEL, low battery warning, etc. Hopefully recharging the battery will lower your cranking times so you could wait for a CEL before wasting your time with a dealer. By the way, what year is your car? I see you have 27K+ miles. If an '08, you're way overdue for a new idle valve . Good luck man, and keep us posted.
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07-12-2011, 11:09 AM	#8
Krozi Colonel 167 Rep 2,736 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoFla - Bonita Springs iTrader: (24)	I call bad idle control valve. __________________ 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White//Fox Red//6MT// Florida Bimmer - Join us on FaceBook!
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07-12-2011, 11:18 AM	#9
mdosu Banned 314 Rep 8,496 Posts Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (6)	it's a idle air control valve issue when his idle dips or over time he can't hold the idle. Hence that's why I asked if his idle dips, or is it strong after the initial startup.
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07-12-2011, 12:55 PM	#12
Krozi Colonel 167 Rep 2,736 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: SoFla - Bonita Springs iTrader: (24)	32K miles and no idle control valve! Cause I drive my car like a fuckin MAN. lol __________________ 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White//Fox Red//6MT// Florida Bimmer - Join us on FaceBook!
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12-04-2011, 08:57 PM	#15
rwchrist CMPULSV 20 Rep 359 Posts Drives: 09 Alpine White Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas iTrader: (2) Garage List 2009 M3 [0.00]	I am having the same issues. Started with the flux & dealer replaced the idle valve. That didn't fix it, but had me take it home & run BMW fuel additive in it. Did this for 1/2 a tank & then I said they had to take it back cuz every time the car sits for 4 hours or so, it cranks for 8-10 seconds...then stumbles, sometimes worse than before. They took it back for a week & said it's probably bad gas. I always use the same shell gas station & highest octain. They said use lower octain cuz maybe the higher octain is older gas & causing the starting problems. So, I have the car back & have filled it with lower octain. Any other thoughts? Jun 09 build with with 16k mls. Thanks REG __________________ 2009 Alpine White DCT E92 M3 - Tint, Hood M Stripes, Eibach Springs, Gloss Black Rims, Vorsteiner Lip, BMW Performance Trunk Spoiler Fabspeed x-pipe & Megan Race Exhaust 2006 Imola Red 6-speed E46 M3 - Retired
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12-04-2011, 09:13 PM	#16
Ateam Banned 88 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	That is the laziest fix I have ever heard from a dealer and no offense but you really just took that advice? Clearly its not a bad gas issue! Cars do not crank for 10 seconds because of bad gas! A car may run more roughly or idle roughly but it aint going to cause a long crank. Dealer at its worst there
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12-05-2011, 02:19 AM	#18
BPMSport BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3387 Rep 7,542 Posts Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (9) Garage List 2000 BMW M5 [0.00] 1990 BMW 735i Turbo [0.00] 2008 BMW M3 [7.50] 2015 BMW M3 [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 [0.00]	Does not seem to be the battery to me at all.. Check the voltage of course, make sure you have atleast 12V with the car off, 14+ on. Has to be an issue with a crank or cam position sensor, or an issue with fuel delivery or ignition. Car turns over strong, it's just not firing up as it should. __________________ -----\| Like us on Facebook \| Instagram \|\| Tuning Information \| Remote Coding \|----- ----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. \| Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
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02-07-2018, 05:00 PM	#19
bgary22 Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Jarez Black Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Coquitlam iTrader: (0)	I got similar iginition problem Hi Art Eventually what's the cause you found for the engine stuttering issue? I got similar issue just recently. Thanks.
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