Does the M5 have enough traction?

[LarThaL]

I know there had been talk of making the M5 AWD at one point. That idea was abandoned do to the obvious compromise in steering responsiveness that comes with AWD. Still, with that much power and torque, how does a big RWD sedan cope? Do you find the DSC kicking in all the time? Are the stock sized tires adequate? Or is this simply too much power to properly get to the ground without AWD?

[dr.skp.ortho]

Traction is an issue due to the huge power and torque, the DSC does operate frequently.

But...it's amazingly effective at putting the power down onto the road.

The excellent DSC calibration, MDM mode, PSS tyres, DCT/Drivetrain and of course the Active M Differential allow the power to be harnessed effectively.

It's the reason why the M5 is quicker off the mark (and of course on the track) than the equivalent AMG PP despite a 120Nm torque deficit.

[nyamg]

Originally Posted by dr.skp.ortho

Traction is an issue due to the huge power and torque, the DSC does operate frequently.

But...it's amazingly effective at putting the power down onto the road.

The excellent DSC calibration, MDM mode, PSS tyres, DCT/Drivetrain and of course the Active M Differential allow the power to be harnessed effectively.

It's the reason why the M5 is quicker off the mark (and of course on the track) than the equivalent AMG PP despite a 120Nm torque deficit.

^^^^+2, very well said. Of all the cars I've owned, I definitely would have to say that this car flashes the T.C. light on the dash more than ANY other!!!

[Poleposition]

Also, I dont think the AWD idea was abandoned due to lack of steering response but moreso, weight consideration, lack of customer desire, fuel efficiency and the effectiveness of the Active M differential.

[nytrus112]

Originally Posted by Poleposition

Also, I dont think the AWD idea was abandoned due to lack of steering response but moreso, weight consideration, lack of customer desire, fuel efficiency and the effectiveness of the Active M differential.

+1

[Ak3249]

Originally Posted by Poleposition

Also, I dont think the AWD idea was abandoned due to lack of steering response but moreso, weight consideration, lack of customer desire, fuel efficiency and the effectiveness of the Active M differential.

Being that I live in NY if BMW were to make a 4WD M6 personally I'd be all over it. I dont know why they don't, Porsche has been very successful with their Carrera 4 and 4S platforms. I currently own a 2010 Porsche Targa 4S it the steering is amazing, I feel as tough there is no compromise what so ever. Another benefit is that I can enjoy the car when there is snow on the ground.

[Tourbillon]

AWD would be perfect for this car in my opinion. Traction control can be too intrusive at times. I have an E550 with AWD and a twin turbo V8 with 450 lb tq and it's very fun to drive at lower speeds and in the city.

[mwlmd]

[QUOTE=Ak3249]

Originally Posted by Poleposition

Also, I dont think the AWD idea was abandoned due to lack of steering response but moreso, weight consideration, lack of customer desire, fuel efficiency and the effectiveness of the Active M differential.

Get some good winter tires and enjoy the M all year around.

[RPiM5]

I would imagine getting wider rear wheels with wider and sticky tires would be the best way to increase traction.

[dr.skp.ortho]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I would imagine getting wider rear wheels with wider and sticky tires would be the best way to increase traction.

How wide would you recommend? It's already got 295 tyres on 20" and the Michelin PSS are like super glue....way better than the Pirelli PZero that are fitted on my 991S.

Just curious to see if anyone has tried different tyre/size combinations?

[dr.skp.ortho]

Originally Posted by Poleposition

Also, I dont think the AWD idea was abandoned due to lack of steering response but moreso, weight consideration, lack of customer desire, fuel efficiency and the effectiveness of the Active M differential.

I agree. It doesn't snow where I live so if it was offered I would not jump on board for AWD. I have no experience driving the M5 in the snow so bear in mind my perspective may biased.

Ultimately we want the car to be fast, driveable and controllable.

Part of that is using the DSC. IMO it is one of the most unobtrusive set-ups I have ever used. If it flashes it doesn't concern me. The M5 is still quicker than any AMG CLS/E Class and the twin turbo V10 RS6 which has more power and Quattro.

So AWD isnt a blanket solution.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by Tourbillon

AWD would be perfect for this car in my opinion. Traction control can be too intrusive at times. I have an E550 with AWD and a twin turbo V8 with 450 lb tq and it's very fun to drive at lower speeds and in the city.

totally. after having this car i really wish it had AWD. i don't give a damn what the reasons were. it would have been more fun to have ultimate grip off the line. period.

the other day a dude driving a truck (think it was a dodge ram 2500) decided to race me at the lights. he pinned it so i decided to play along. it was SOOO difficult trying to feather the throttle within that range where you kept accelerating, but didn't lose traction. i ended up having to back off the gas so much, the guy in the truck basically stayed even with me until we were going well over 40 mph.

in my opinion they didn't do the greatest job harnessing the power to allow it to be put to the road effectively.

the weird thing isn't just that you lose traction. its WHEN you lose it. it seems to happen at the most unexpected time. like when you've already gotten off the line and have reached a speed at which you THINK, ok, i should be able to put the pedal all the way down now. then you do and the car decides to start dancing all over the place. you need to be very careful not to do this in ANY other situation other than going completely straight.

if you go to say, half throttle immediately off the line, it will hook up initially and the initial launch is not bad. then you hold the accelerator in that same position and then after you hit 4-5000 rpm the wheels break lose and there goes your speed.

obviously i drive with DSC off when in M mode. just a habit i acquired with the e60, as it was the best way to unleash the fun-ness.

this is definitely a different beast from an amg where you can get in and just go with no skill whatsoever. with this car the increased throttle response comes with the need for increased precision on the gas pedal.

[Charlie Brown]

[Charlie Brown]

Say what you will about AWD vs RWD for handling and feel.. IMHO an AWD M5 would be a quicker car with the ability to use more of the available power and torque earlier during accelerating off the line or out of a corner. For me, thats the point of making all that power, so it can be used! Porsche and Audi have it figured out, BMW can as well. I for one would love the option to get AWD on my M5. That said, I will enjoy the hell out of my new RWD M5!

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Say what you will about AWD vs RWD for handling and feel.. IMHO an AWD M5 would be a quicker car with the ability to use more of the available power and torque earlier during accelerating off the line or out of a corner. For me, thats the point of making all that power, so it can be used! Porsche and Audi have it figured out, BMW can as well. I for one would love the option to get AWD on my M5. That said, I will enjoy the hell out of my new RWD M5!

So true. The M5 is really pushing the limits of physics with what it is trying to accomplish. Putting this much power/torque in a low mid-engine two-seater is one thing, but putting it in a front-engine RWD sedan, and then trying to build the car so it will have crisp handling as well, is damn near impossible. I really applaud BMW for what they have managed to accomplish with the M5, however the car is inherently compromised. To maintain sharpness and keep the weight down, they made it RWD, but there is just no way to properly get all that power to the ground with RWD in a big front engine sedan. Mercedes Benz makes no pretenses. They are about luxury and straight-line prowess. But, BMW M cars have always been about the total performance package. Strong handling is essential. And 295's are just way too small for this much power. Even a Z06 Corvette which weighs 1000 lbs less and has less torque uses 275/325 tires. 295's are good on an M3, not the M5. This car needs 275/325. Hopefully they will fit with the right wheels.

[smashhell]

There is already an AWD, four seater, 4000lb car that works.
It's call the GTR.
Not only it works, it darn nearly beat everything else on the market on the track.
It got a whole 31 seconds lead on the M5 at the ring.
If only BMW would develop a car like that. :/

[NlckyBlack]

DSC Off

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by smashhell

There is already an AWD, four seater, 4000lb car that works.
It's call the GTR.
Not only it works, it darn nearly beat everything else on the market on the track.
It got a whole 31 seconds lead on the M5 at the ring.
If only BMW would develop a car like that. :/

You really can't compare the GTR to an M5. The GTR is a pure techno muscle car. The back seat is a joke. It has no luxury or refinement. The ride is brutal. It is about pure objective performance on a relative budget and nothing else. For its intended purpose, it does the job exceedingly well, but I honestly don't think too many people will be cross shopping a GTR and an M5.

It really isn't hard to develop a car like the GTR. Of course BMW or any manufacturer could do it if they wanted to. The real issue becomes when you ask a car to do more than one thing. Especially when that thing is to be able to coddle four adults in luxury and refinement, and be a mega-performance machine.

[kpaschall]

There definitely is a lot of difference between MDM mode in this model and the E60 M5. I had the MT in the E50 and it would rarely break loose on full throttle starts even from a turn in MDM mode. The F10 can break loose quite often in MDM, but unfortunately kill the power frequently in full traction control. I need to get to M school to learn to drive this to its full potential. I don't want to put it into a tree...

[dkreidel]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

I know there had been talk of making the M5 AWD at one point. That idea was abandoned do to the obvious compromise in steering responsiveness that comes with AWD.

Go drive a 997 TT and report to us about the steering

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by dkreidel

Go drive a 997 TT and report to us about the steering

I have driven a 911 4S. It is not a similar comparison. The 911's do not have the same amount of weight sitting over the driven front wheels. Neither does a Gallardo for that matter or an Audi R8. Still, if you compare the steering response of a RWD 911 vs. its AWD counterpart, the RWD car will still have the better steering response and feel. My comment was really more for front engine cars. I should have specified that.

[GTR-Dad]

Originally Posted by NlckyBlack

DSC Off

This.

I never see traction control kicking in. Just the steady yellow glow of the "traction control off" symbol. I do break traction once in a while, but I blame myself and the road, not the car.

I'm a big fan of AWD for extreme performance cars, but appreciate the character that comes with the RWD of the M5.

Traction and stability control train bad drivers one corner at a time. Just pay attention behind the wheel and enjoy the ride!